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Author Topic:   Does Atheism = No beliefs?
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6349
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


(1)
Message 391 of 414 (828127)
02-10-2018 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 389 by Phat
02-09-2018 7:05 PM


Re: Two Atheists With Similar Views
Phat asks about Peter Boghossian:

Here's PZ Myers opinion of him:

Two white dudes spend an hour talking about how racist and sexist it is to criticize other white dudes

An epistemological battering

He's a bit of a sexist prick at best.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by Phat, posted 02-09-2018 7:05 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2763
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(1)
Message 392 of 414 (828188)
02-13-2018 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 388 by ringo
02-02-2018 11:39 AM


Re: It's funny
Ringo writes:

So yes, religion is dangerous. Like some other diseases, we may not be able to eradicate it but it seems reasonable that we should do our best to minimize its ill effects.

You paint with a broad brush sir.
The soviet union thought the same thing about religion in that they wanted to eradicate it and minimize it's ill effects.

I do agree that religion CAN be dangerous so can any intolerant group to include atheistic regimes.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by ringo, posted 02-02-2018 11:39 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 393 by ringo, posted 02-13-2018 11:37 AM 1.61803 has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14910
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 393 of 414 (828195)
02-13-2018 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 392 by 1.61803
02-13-2018 10:40 AM


Re: It's funny
~1.6 writes:

You paint with a broad brush sir.
The soviet union thought the same thing about religion in that they wanted to eradicate it and minimize it's ill effects.


My brush is much narrower than theirs.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by 1.61803, posted 02-13-2018 10:40 AM 1.61803 has acknowledged this reply

  
KyleConno
Junior Member (Idle past 87 days)
Posts: 11
Joined: 04-28-2017


Message 394 of 414 (828252)
02-15-2018 4:42 AM


Atheism ≠ no beliefs
Atheists believe that there is a force beyond humans that governs the nature but they disapprove the theory of naming the force and dividing it into different religions.
Replies to this message:
 Message 395 by Phat, posted 02-15-2018 9:04 AM KyleConno has not yet responded
 Message 396 by Tangle, posted 02-15-2018 9:16 AM KyleConno has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10970
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 395 of 414 (828261)
02-15-2018 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 394 by KyleConno
02-15-2018 4:42 AM


Re: Atheism ≠ no beliefs
This is an interesting theory, Kyle. Can you elaborate a bit?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by KyleConno, posted 02-15-2018 4:42 AM KyleConno has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5969
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 1.7


(4)
Message 396 of 414 (828263)
02-15-2018 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 394 by KyleConno
02-15-2018 4:42 AM


Re: Atheism ≠ no beliefs
KyleConno writes:

Atheists believe that there is a force beyond humans that governs the nature but they disapprove the theory of naming the force and dividing it into different religions.

Just for Phat's benefit - I can feel him getting all excited - this is not language atheists would use.

Atheists don't believe in forces beyond humans. If they talk about 'forces' at all, it's in the physics sense, not the mystical.

All that an atheist is is someone who doesn't believe in god(s). End.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by KyleConno, posted 02-15-2018 4:42 AM KyleConno has not yet responded

  
AlexCaledin
Member (Idle past 61 days)
Posts: 41
From: Samara, Russia
Joined: 10-22-2016


Message 397 of 414 (828374)
02-16-2018 4:25 PM


Atheists do believe that they, wretched things on a tiny planet hopelessly lost in the multiverse, to die forever very soon, are nevertheless absolutely the greatest ones!
Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by Tangle, posted 02-16-2018 4:33 PM AlexCaledin has not yet responded
 Message 399 by ringo, posted 02-17-2018 11:04 AM AlexCaledin has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5969
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 398 of 414 (828376)
02-16-2018 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 397 by AlexCaledin
02-16-2018 4:25 PM


AC writes:

Atheists do believe that they, wretched things on a tiny planet hopelessly lost in the multiverse, to die forever very soon, are nevertheless absolutely the greatest ones!

Don't be silly.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by AlexCaledin, posted 02-16-2018 4:25 PM AlexCaledin has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14910
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 399 of 414 (828405)
02-17-2018 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 397 by AlexCaledin
02-16-2018 4:25 PM


AlexCaledin writes:

... on a tiny planet hopelessly lost in the multiverse....


Why would we need to know where we are in the multiverse? It isn't like we can't get everything we need right here. In fact, we know a lot more than we need to know about the neighbourhood.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by AlexCaledin, posted 02-16-2018 4:25 PM AlexCaledin has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 400 by Phat, posted 02-17-2018 12:21 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10970
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 400 of 414 (828406)
02-17-2018 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 399 by ringo
02-17-2018 11:04 AM


Alex is just pointing out how arrogant people are being so small and claiming to have no need for a Creator. God is like oxygen...you wont even miss Him until you need Him.

There are no atheists in locked school classrooms during crazy shootings.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by ringo, posted 02-17-2018 11:04 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by ringo, posted 02-17-2018 12:30 PM Phat has responded
 Message 402 by Tangle, posted 02-17-2018 12:41 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14910
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 401 of 414 (828407)
02-17-2018 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by Phat
02-17-2018 12:21 PM


Phat writes:

Alex is just pointing out how arrogant people are being so small and claiming to have no need for a Creator. God is like oxygen...you wont even miss Him until you need Him.


What's arrogant is thinking you know anything about God.

Phat writes:

There are no atheists in locked school classrooms during crazy shootings.


How does God help the victims?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by Phat, posted 02-17-2018 12:21 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 403 by Phat, posted 02-17-2018 12:48 PM ringo has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5969
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 402 of 414 (828409)
02-17-2018 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by Phat
02-17-2018 12:21 PM


Phat writes:

Alex is just pointing out how arrogant people are being so small and claiming to have no need for a Creator.

Yeh, well Alex is just saying dumb things.

God is like oxygen...you wont even miss Him until you need Him.

You do spout some utter crap sometimes Phat. How can anyone miss something that doesn't exist?

There are no atheists in locked school classrooms during crazy shootings.

Of course there are. You just default to these religious tropes without even thinking don't you?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by Phat, posted 02-17-2018 12:21 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10970
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 403 of 414 (828410)
02-17-2018 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 401 by ringo
02-17-2018 12:30 PM


Never Hurts To Believe In Eternity
ringo writes:

How does God help the victims?

We won't know that answer until we ourselves die. To hear Tangle tell it, we will simply cease to exist at that point.

Believing otherwise is not that irrational...just unknown.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by ringo, posted 02-17-2018 12:30 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 404 by ringo, posted 02-20-2018 10:47 AM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14910
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 404 of 414 (828498)
02-20-2018 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 403 by Phat
02-17-2018 12:48 PM


Re: Never Hurts To Believe In Eternity
Phat writes:

We won't know that answer until we ourselves die.


But you said, "There are no atheists in locked school classrooms during crazy shootings." Why would they not be atheists? Are they hoping God will save them? It seems to me that in a bad situation people are more likely to realize that there is no external help - i.e. no God.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 403 by Phat, posted 02-17-2018 12:48 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 405 by Phat, posted 02-20-2018 11:16 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10970
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 405 of 414 (828501)
02-20-2018 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 404 by ringo
02-20-2018 10:47 AM


Re: Never Hurts To Believe In Eternity
Why would they not be atheists?
Because they chose at some point in their lives to be believers. They dont expect evidence to explain everything.
Are they hoping God will save them?
Yes. Critics may point at the bodies and suggest that evidence proves otherwise, but it is insufficient to prove anything apart from physical death.

It seems to me that in a bad situation people are more likely to realize that there is no external help - i.e. no God.
Only if they place too much "faith" in science and evidence. Believers dont simply switch boats in the middle of the stream when the rapids approach. Again, this is why many never fully become believers. They never bought the product to begin with.

Add: My claim is that in a situation where one might lose their life, many at that moment will buy the product. The risk makes it worthwhile.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by ringo, posted 02-20-2018 10:47 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 406 by ringo, posted 02-20-2018 11:31 AM Phat has responded

  
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