Evangelical Support Group

Would it have included those? A large number of those writings never made into the Bible, many of them being rejected as either heretical or apocryphal. Would they still be considered "Scripture"? And if not, then, without the foresight of the future Council of Nicea, how could the writer(s) of those epistles know what "Scripture" was supposed to be?As I understand the Jewish viewpoint, Scripture refers to the Torah and to the other books which largely makes up what Christians call "the Old Testament". I would expect the writers in question to have had the same understanding.The questiont that I'm raising is whether they would have also considered the numerous new religious writings to also be "Scripture". Kind of like whether Chick Pubs tracts should be considered "Scripture".Corollary question: just exactly when did New Testament writings come to be considered "Scripture"?

Yes, obviously! But try to tell that to a creationist.

With all due respect.That link was not to that movement's page in which said Chris Rosebrough and/or his group could present their position and aims, but rather to a Wikipedia article, Christian countercult movement, speaking generally of several different denominations trying to oppose those denominations that they consider to be cults; from that article:

quote:

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The Christian countercult movement or Christian anti-cult movement is a social movement of certain Protestant evangelical and fundamentalist and other Christian ministries ("discernment ministries") and individual activists who oppose religious sects they consider "cults".

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Always a science fiction fan, back in college (early 1970's, though I'm back again in retirement) I would also indulge in religious sci-fi. I have also long appreciated irony, though the sources of irony are too often too horrific (eg, just about anything that the Religious Right (which kisses up to the AntiChrist), the Trump Administration, and the Republican Party do) to allow me to say that I enjoy irony. About a decade ago I read Only Begotten Daughter in which Satan takes Julie into Hell to meet and speak with Jesus. It turns out that everybody except for four people (Julie Katz' father being one) have ended up in Hell. The reason for that is that for every group, religious or otherwise, there was a religious group who believed that first group would go to Hell. So every single group all got their wishes and everybody went to Hell.Back around 1970, I was something of a fellow traveler of the Jesus Freak Movement and I am still sympathetic to individual believers even though I am highly critical of their theology. That was the genesis of the modern fundamentalist/evangelical mega-churches and the source of political power for the American conservative/evangelical/fundamentalist movement (which CTCS Malcolm Nance ties in with the international conservative network of "nationalist" groups that are on Putin's payroll).And then there's one de-conversion story that really stuck with me. A boy raised strongly Baptist goes to college and finds a girlfriend that he really cares about. Well, she's Catholic, so he's really troubled that this girl that he cares so much for is going to Hell because she's not Baptist. Then one day she breaks down in tears and as he tries to console her she sobs out that it's because she's so worried for him going to Hell because he's not a Catholic. That was his wake-up call. He went straight to the college library and asked for a complete history of Christianity. The librarian tried to dissuade him, but he was insistent. He read the entire extremely thick book in less than a month, after which he had concluded that even if there were a God, He sure as Hell wasn't Christian.Oh, yes. The irony. Many of the tell-tale signs of a cult are also exhibited by some (or many) of the sects who run these discernment ministries. You are to only associate with fellow believers, except for the purpose of converting others. If the source of the information isn't your own religion, then ignore it. The unequal yoke: do not get into a relationship with a non-believer (which includes all denominations and sects outside your own). Though using seduction to deceive someone into converting, a frequent cult trick which can also be used to keep the victim entrapped within the cult, is allowed and undoubtedly encouraged (in 1970, the proselytizing training materials were still somewhat crude and hadn't yet progressed to sexual entrapment). On-line, many creationists have tried to become personal friends in their efforts to convert me, proclaiming great interest until it becomes clear that they cannot possibly convert me whereupon they abruptly lose all interest.An old friend from college had a similar story with some weird twists (for me). When my brother-in-law became a fundamentalist and married another fundamentalist, Pat, it turned out to be that "Jesus Freak chick" in my French classes. In that second-year class, we had a pen-pal program with French students. She was so Jesus-Freak that her pen-pal never replied to her. I met that french-class friend, Lisa, over a decade later at an atheist lunch. She described to me her "friendship" with Pat. Pat was best friends with Lisa so long as it seemed to her that she could convert Lisa. As soon as Lisa had made it clear that she could never convert, Pat would have nothing more to do with Lisa.Which coincidentally was the exact-same reaction I got from so many creationists.

How could he? Christianity obviously evolved from the mystery religions, so it only follows that Christians would not understand their own religion.From their coverage in my comparative religions class c. 1971 (Dr. Christian; his daughter, Candy, also attended that class -- true story), a common feature of mystery religions (besides the death and resurrection of the god/demigod and the ritual eating of his flesh and drinking of his blood) is their being organized into two parts: the Inner Temple and the Outer Temple. The Outer Temple were the rituals performed in public using obtuse symbolism in order to hide the meanings of the rituals and symbols from outsiders. To learn the true teachings and the meaning behind all that symbolism, you had to be initiated into the Inner Temple (which did not require losing your right eye, unlike in Wotan's case -- though in the Wotan cult I'm not so sure, given references to that in Barbaren and American Gods).We see an example of that interplay between the Outer Temple and the Inner Temple in the account of Jesus' Parables. We are told that he taught the crowd in parables (basically, throwing around, so ¿throwing them a curve ball?) so that they would not understand him, unless they had "eyes to see and ears to hear" (ie, had already been initiated into the mysteries). Then he pulled his disciples off to the side to explain the mysteries to them (Mark uses that actual term), thus inducting them into the Inner Temple.It is my own personal feeling that in the case of Christianity the Outer Temple is all that has survived, but the Inner Temple has been lost long ago. Or else being kept a closely guarded secret by the original churches (eg, Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic, etc).But at the very least, the vast majority of believers (very likely all of them) have never learned what their religion actually taught originally. So how could we expect them to understand it?

Scene in the X-Men movie in which a young mutant comes out to his parents: Belief is not a choice. Even less so is disbelief.Haven't you ever read a deconversion testimonial? In many of them (eg, Dan Barker's) the individual desperately wants to hold onto his beliefs and must watch helplessly as those beliefs crumble before his eyes. Once you begin to realize that your beliefs are not true, then you lose the ability to continue to believe in them. It's not a choice ... unless you choose to engage in self-delusion, but that gets us into mental illness. That's the Republicans you're talking about. When they commit to massive spending (eg, $2 trillion permanent tax cuts for the rich, two massive wars under Dubya), they do not bother to figure out how to pay for it. In sharp contrast as the Democrats were crafting that large relief bill for everybody (not just the hyper-rich) front and center in the discussions was how they were going to pay for it.It is very clear that Democrats are the fiscally responsible ones whereas it's the Republicans who are the reckless spendthrifts. History bears that over the past decades as Republicans would drive us deeper into debt and generally ruin the economy and Democrats had to then come in and clean up their mess. We lose jobs under a Republican administration and gain jobs under a Democrat. No balanced budgets under a Republican, but we did get one under a Democrat.And after running on inflation, what is the Republican plan for dealing with inflation? None. Instead, their Number One most important priority is investigating Hunter Biden.Watch their clown cars roll up into the Capitol.