Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,806 Year: 3,063/9,624 Month: 908/1,588 Week: 91/223 Day: 2/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win.
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 251 of 2887 (769897)
09-26-2015 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Admin
09-26-2015 11:48 AM


I'm very surprised this would be considered controversial.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Admin, posted 09-26-2015 11:48 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Admin, posted 09-26-2015 1:14 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 254 of 2887 (769900)
09-26-2015 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by edge
09-26-2015 12:42 PM


Re: Moderator Requests
The order is very suggestive as I keep saying, but it can't be treated as proof of evolution.
The point is that the fossil record is evidence supporting evolution and nothing else that's out there as an explanation.
But when you say the evolutionary interpretation is a fact aren't you essentially calling it proof?
Saying it's a fact that it's a bunch of fossilized life forms doesn't exclude other facts about it.
I submit that there is nothing wrong with using a well-supported theory as a fact. T In fact, that's what we do. If we treat it as a fact, and it is wrong we find out when it gives us bad results.
It doesn't look all that "well supported" from here, since it lacks hard evidence. And it's hard to find out it's wrong when it's mostly conjectures. There's something self-validating about the ToE that isn't scientifically kosher.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by edge, posted 09-26-2015 12:42 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by edge, posted 09-26-2015 1:09 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 255 of 2887 (769901)
09-26-2015 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Dr Adequate
09-26-2015 12:50 PM


Re: Moderator Requests
I'm sorry but if there is anything to your complaint you will have to explain it again. I did say I often forget former arguments. Thank you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-26-2015 12:50 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-27-2015 11:20 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 256 of 2887 (769902)
09-26-2015 1:03 PM


My latest challenge to the fossil record claims
These thoughts from my previous post are being ignored in the answers to it so far so I'd like to bring them to your attention again:
And I do often wonder just HOW universal it really is. Once you're convinced it's this ironclad proof of evolution you aren't going to be very open to raising questions about it. Apparently insignificant deviations from the pattern could be overlooked, rationalized away etc.
One thing that keeps coming to mind is why each layer/time period seems to be characterized by a dominant kind of life, while former kinds, those in the lower layers, seem to be much less in evidence. I'm not sure how true this is but most representations of the fossil record emphasize the apparent sequence that fits the taxonomic tree and whatever else shares the layer is generally overlooked. Isn't it true that the nautiloids that Steve Austin studied occupy that one and only layer in the redwall limestone? Why wouldn't you see nautiloids above that layer too, or do you? In significant numbers of course. There are billions of them in that one layer, it's THEIR layer, but surely we know the earth was never populated by just one kind of life and the nautiloid is a fairly large complex creature for there not to be an abundance of evolutionary precursors. But where are they? And isn't this a common situation from layer to layer?
The dinosaurs supposedly went extinct at a specific point in time so that's the explanation for their nonappearance above the time periods they're associated with. The coelacanth that was once thought to be extinct is now known to be living but IIRC it showed up in the Devonian and then not again until, I forget, the Quaternary?, and that was the end of its fossil record. Why the long gap? Actually gaps plural. Weren't there any coelacanths in between the Devonian and its later appearance, or above that latest appearance? If not why not? It's of course possible to rationalize anything like this away, but I think it raises serious questions about the meaning of the fossil record.
Do believers in evolution raise these questions?
ABE: I'm sure the contents of a particular layer aren't considered to be the entire range of life on the planet during that period of time, but that IS the way the information is often presented, and there does seem to be a paucity of varied life forms in most of the layers.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by edge, posted 09-26-2015 1:12 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 259 of 2887 (769905)
09-26-2015 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by edge
09-26-2015 1:09 PM


Re: Moderator Requests
The theory of evolution has been flying for a couple of centuries now...
Well, it's a castle in the air, hard to shoot down.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by edge, posted 09-26-2015 1:09 PM edge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by PaulK, posted 09-26-2015 1:36 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 261 of 2887 (769907)
09-26-2015 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by edge
09-26-2015 1:12 PM


I thought that was just psychologically true for anyone, I wasn't casting aspersions on you. We're all subject to blindness to other ways of looking at something we've been convinced of.
I would still like your attention to the questions I thought might be overlooked for such a reason.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by edge, posted 09-26-2015 1:12 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by edge, posted 09-26-2015 1:47 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 264 of 2887 (769911)
09-26-2015 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by edge
09-26-2015 1:47 PM


... and there does seem to be a paucity of varied life forms in most of the layers.
Do we have to explain that again?
Well, my memory must be a lot worse than I thought. I absolutely do not remember this ever coming up before.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by edge, posted 09-26-2015 1:47 PM edge has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 266 of 2887 (769949)
09-27-2015 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by RAZD
09-26-2015 2:22 PM


Re: Just the Facts, Mam,
Would you not agree that "so apparently consistent" a pattern is strong evidence that it is more correct than just a random pile of fossils?
I've said I can see why it's seductive. But if there is no way to get from one creature to another genetically it's a bust.
The point was that you can't impose an interpretation on the facts and continue to call it facts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by RAZD, posted 09-26-2015 2:22 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by PaulK, posted 09-27-2015 2:49 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 268 by Admin, posted 09-27-2015 7:52 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 269 by RAZD, posted 09-27-2015 8:58 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 270 by edge, posted 09-27-2015 9:34 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 452 of 2887 (818585)
08-30-2017 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 451 by Taq
08-30-2017 6:08 PM


It's not true. Dog morphology is always distinctively that of a dog; also dog behavior. There's no mistaking dogs as anything but dogs. You are allowing yourself to be confused by unimportant differences.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 451 by Taq, posted 08-30-2017 6:08 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 453 by CRR, posted 08-30-2017 6:20 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 454 by Taq, posted 08-30-2017 6:21 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 645 of 2887 (828295)
02-15-2018 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 641 by KyleConno
02-15-2018 4:53 AM


Re: Believe in Evolution
If not evolution, how else did the fossils end up on earth?
The worldwide Flood of Noah of course. That was its purpose, to kill everything on the land except those saved on the ark. The fossils are terrific evidence for that event. The Flood would have killed enough creatures to account for the enormous abundance of fossils we actually see, and only the Flood could have created the ideal conditions for fossilization by soaking the land and depositing sediments successively to bury them rapidly.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 641 by KyleConno, posted 02-15-2018 4:53 AM KyleConno has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 646 by PaulK, posted 02-15-2018 4:36 PM Faith has replied
 Message 648 by Percy, posted 02-15-2018 4:50 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 647 of 2887 (828297)
02-15-2018 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 646 by PaulK
02-15-2018 4:36 PM


Re: Believe in Evolution
It explains it all quite nicely. In a way a few billion years of selective burial can't possibly. But of course, as usual, you are welcome to your opinion. Not your personal attacks on me, however, though nobody is bothering about those things lately.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 646 by PaulK, posted 02-15-2018 4:36 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 649 by PaulK, posted 02-15-2018 4:54 PM Faith has replied
 Message 654 by jar, posted 02-15-2018 5:12 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 650 of 2887 (828300)
02-15-2018 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 648 by Percy
02-15-2018 4:50 PM


Re: Believe in Evolution
The whole concept of ancient versus modern creatures is an artifact of the ToE to begin with, it's all artificial, and all the physical evidence shows rapid burial of large numbers of creatures at once, and not random burial of normally dying creatures.
And by the way this thread was already about the Flood way back at my first post here.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 648 by Percy, posted 02-15-2018 4:50 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 663 by Percy, posted 02-15-2018 7:36 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 651 of 2887 (828301)
02-15-2018 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 649 by PaulK
02-15-2018 4:54 PM


Re: Believe in Evolution
Stop lmputing to me opinions of your own that I do not share, and certainly stop accusing me of some kind of sin for simply disagreeing with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 649 by PaulK, posted 02-15-2018 4:54 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 652 by PaulK, posted 02-15-2018 5:02 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 653 of 2887 (828303)
02-15-2018 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 652 by PaulK
02-15-2018 5:02 PM


Re: Believe in Evolution
Point the finger at yourself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 652 by PaulK, posted 02-15-2018 5:02 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 658 by PaulK, posted 02-15-2018 5:21 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 655 of 2887 (828305)
02-15-2018 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 654 by jar
02-15-2018 5:12 PM


Re: Believe in Evolution
The facts as I have given them speak for themselves.
The concept of fossil order is just a weird artifact of the ToE.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 654 by jar, posted 02-15-2018 5:12 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 656 by jar, posted 02-15-2018 5:17 PM Faith has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024