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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 1942 of 4573 (828565)
02-21-2018 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1939 by Percy
02-21-2018 8:22 AM


Re: Collusion by the Trump Campaign Proven Six Months Ago?
The document passed from the Russians to Donald Jr. represents an "other thing of value"
Is that your best argument? That is a serious stretch, but at least your position is out there, and we all understand it. I'm not convinced.
ABE:
Percy writes:
That may be true since whether there was a conspiracy is for a jury to decide
This is probably not true. Issues of law for always decided by the court, meaning the judge. The judge will interpret the law. He will either do it prior to trial or after the presentation of the case in instructions to the jury. Whether or not passing on information is included as "value" under the statute would certainly be a question of law and not a question of fact.
Questions of law are also treated differently on appeal. The appellate courts review issues of law under a de novo standard, while they can perform only a limited review on other questions that arise in a trial. Appellate courts are completely free to substitute their ruling on a matter of law for the original court's view, while they are supposed to give deference to the lower court's decision on fact issues.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1939 by Percy, posted 02-21-2018 8:22 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1944 by Percy, posted 02-21-2018 6:02 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 1945 of 4573 (828640)
02-21-2018 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1944 by Percy
02-21-2018 6:02 PM


Re: Collusion by the Trump Campaign Proven Six Months Ago?
I'm not clear on what you mean. That the document was not "an other thing of value"?
I am not asking whether the document had a value. I am asking the legal question of whether the document was "an other thing of value" as targetted under the act. That question is not going to be answered simply by consulting a dictionary. You may need to read the statute, its surrounding notes, consider precedent, the legislative history, the problem the legislature is trying to address, etc. The question might well have a constitutional dimension.
In this case, we know that Congress was concerned with keeping the foreign money and other money like things (like free labor, free airtime) from being a part of the election. Yet we also understand that under our laws, foreigners are free to post derogatory information on Twitter, but that paid for campaigns are forbidden. In my view, that rationale suggests that providing a dirt document would likely not something Congress was targetting.
Off-topic, but this is a pet peeve of mine. I understand the need for finality regarding facts, especially in an era of endless appeals and and "new" facts and witnesses recanting and so forth, but I've read too many examples in the news of cases of the courts sticking with the original facts way beyond the point of reasonability.
That is an understandable concern. The primary reason for not having appellate courts take a new look at facts is that part of assessing the truth is seeing the testimony of the witnesses, and making attempts to judge their credibility. The judge/jury does not just look at a transcript, they also observe the demeanor of the witnesses and the questioner, whether or not the witness is fidgeting, pulling at his color, sweating, looking folks in the eye, etc. Evidence that appears weighty can easily be dismissed if it is offered by a party that is not credible.
On the other hand, the appellate courts do not hold trials, and they don't have access to the information that the triers of fact have. If there is new evidence that was unavailable at trial, perhaps that warrants a new trial, but the appellate court won't hold that trial. If instead, we are talking about old evidence that could have been presented, well choices of what to present and not to present are matters of strategy. If you guess wrong, fairness would not require that you get a do-over.
I am not going to pretend that the current process is ideal. I know that some folks get the shaft because of desire for finality of judgment. But there are reasons why there are limits on what courts can do.
Edited by NoNukes, : address more stuff

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1944 by Percy, posted 02-21-2018 6:02 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1946 by Percy, posted 02-22-2018 1:34 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1954 by Percy, posted 02-27-2018 8:23 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 1951 of 4573 (828874)
02-25-2018 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1948 by Percy
02-25-2018 12:15 PM


More CPAC "Highlights"
CPAC Official Says Michael Steele Was Chosen to Lead G.O.P. Because He’s ‘a Black Guy’ - The New York Times
Ian Walters, a spokesperson for CPAC said that in a speech at CPAC that Mr. [Michael] Steele was chosen as [RNC] chairman because he is a black guy.
quote:
Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) communication director Ian Walters sparked controversy with what was seen as a racially charged insult on Friday night.
Walters said told hundreds of dinner guests, "We elected Mike Steele as chairman because he was a black guy, that was the wrong thing to do."
Steele was near the back of the room at the time. He said Walters' remarks show "a lack of maturity and a lack of understanding of the work we did and the work we continue to do."
Walter's later attempted some sort of apology but Michael Steel did not accept it.
quote:
Speaking with Joy-Ann Reid of MSNBC on Friday night, Mr. Steele, a former lieutenant governor of Maryland and the first black person elected to statewide office there, said he did not accept an apology from Mr. Walters.
He said at one point, ‘I apologize,’ Mr. Steele said, adding that he told Mr. Walters, That’s not enough.
Before we dismiss Mr. Walter's comment as one man's stupidity, let's look at another reaction from CPAC
CPAC's Schlapp, ex-RNC Chairman Steele have tense exchange over racial comment | Fox News
quote:
Schlapp, chairman of the American Conservative Union, which organizes CPAC, apologized for the situation and said he loved Steele and considered him a friend. However, Steele took issue with Schlapp saying that he wasn’t going to separate himself from Ian.
Schlapp suggested throughout the exchange that some of the criticism directed at Steele is because of how he ran the RNC, and over his more recent criticism of the Republican Party.
quote:
Mr. Schlapp apologized to Mr. Steele and said Mr. Walters’s comments were unfortunate words that might have been based on Mr. Steele’s criticism of the Trump phenomena.
Apparently, criticism of the Republican party, and of Mr. Trump justify the use of the kind of "unfortunate words" directed towards Mr. Steele. It is also equally apparent that black members of the Republican party are expected to tolerate "unfortunate words" if even the weakest of apologies are offered.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1948 by Percy, posted 02-25-2018 12:15 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1953 by nwr, posted 02-26-2018 8:57 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 1955 of 4573 (828938)
02-27-2018 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1954 by Percy
02-27-2018 8:23 AM


Re: Collusion by the Trump Campaign Proven Six Months Ago?
No publicly available information tells us that Papodopoulos told Donald Jr, Jared Kushner or Paul Mannafort about the Clinton campaign emails the Russian had stolen, but we can be sure that a climber like Papodopoulos told at least one of them and probably all of them (directly or indirectly) of what he had learned. Given this, it seems very unlikely that the Trump Tower meeting was a "nothing meeting"
I agree regarding the likelihood that the meeting was not a "nothing meeting", but to date, we have nothing other than speculation about any illegal activity that might have occurred at the meeting. At least with regards to that document, we have some concrete evidence about how it related to the discussion.
Every time Mueller takes public action we learn that he knows far more than anyone guessed he knew, and I think this pattern is likely to continue. That is, I think Mueller knows what was said at the meeting, and he knows about other meetings that aren't currently public knowledge and what was said at them.
I'd like to believe that, but for now, I don't find this argument much more persuasive than simply guessing. I am sure that Mueller knows more than he is telling, but I have no idea what that knowledge might include. I'll celebrate when I see something.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1954 by Percy, posted 02-27-2018 8:23 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1957 by Percy, posted 02-27-2018 8:27 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 1965 of 4573 (829028)
02-28-2018 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1962 by Taq
02-28-2018 12:41 PM


Re: Kushner’s Security Clearance Downgraded
Taq writes:
As far as I am aware, POTUS can unilaterally declare something to be unclassified,
Not without some very bad ramifications. If something is unclassified then leaking it to the press is not a crime. I don't think this is an out. Beyond that, not all classified information goes through the president. I don't see how the president can either declassify everything that Kushner will handle, or be in a position to tell folks that it is okay to tell Kushner is okay for top secret information that the president himself has not learned or that the president has no need to learn.
Kushner's loss of security clearance will have ramifications. Many of them will be political.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1962 by Taq, posted 02-28-2018 12:41 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1966 by jar, posted 02-28-2018 7:00 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 1969 of 4573 (829045)
03-01-2018 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1967 by Percy
03-01-2018 9:31 AM


Re: Collusion by the Trump Campaign Proven Six Months Ago?
Both Stone and Wikileaks deny having direct contact with each other, but The Atlantic's documentation reveals this to be a falsehood. While the smoking gun of direct coordination between Stone and Wikileaks of the email releases does not exist publicly, unless one believes in incredible consecutive coincidences (read the Atlantic article) coordination must have been a factor in the timing.
The problem with trying to link things to Trump's campaign doing something stupid and needing a distraction is that Trump did or said stupid crap on something close to a weekly basis. The timelines you have put forward are intriguing, but I imagine that I could string together a narrative for just about any pattern of leaks, given that the leaks were designed with a fairly rational (for Russia) objective.
Edited by NoNukes, : change links to leaks

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1967 by Percy, posted 03-01-2018 9:31 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 1972 of 4573 (829731)
03-12-2018 8:06 PM


Betsy Devos Interview
In another thread, Percy points us to the CBS interview on Confederate Monuments. The interview he pointed to is up, available at the link he provided, which I will repeat here.
60 Minutes - Full Episodes Video - CBS News
You can also find a 60 minutes interview with Betsy Devos at the same link. Ms. Devos is the current Secretary of Education. As is the case for several of Trump's cabinet picks, (Scott Pruitt being the best example), Devos appears to be diametrically opposed to the mission of the agency.
You can find the entire interview at the above link. During the interview, Devos admits to never having visited a troubled school, and to having no knowledge of how her policies on school choice have turned out in Michigan, her home state.
quote:
I don’t know. Overall, I I can’t say overall that they have all gotten better, DeVos responded.
Well here are some facts about what Devos' policies have done for Michigan Schools
Besty DeVos grilled over Michigan school struggles on '60 Minutes'
quote:
Overall student performance in Michigan has declined dramatically compared with other states since the early 2000s, said Amber Arellano, executive director of Education Trust-Midwest, which does not advocate for or against charter schools.
Michigan students ranked 41st in the nation for fourth-grade reading performance in 2015, down from 38th in 2013 and 28th in 2003, according to the group’s recent analysis of National Assessment of Educational Progress standardized test scores

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 1980 of 4573 (829772)
03-13-2018 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1973 by PaulK
03-13-2018 9:00 AM


Re: Tillerson is out
Trump is an asshat of a boss...
quote:
The only mention of Trump came at the top of the statement when Tillerson mentioned that the President has called him a little after noontime from Air Force One to talk about his ouster. That call came hours after Trump told the world he was fired on Twitter.
Trump couldn't be bothered to tell Tillerson that he was fired before tweeting about it. Who wouldn't know that such lack of decorum is not just unpresidential, but totally unacceptable?
Tillerson is probably gone because he did not agree with Trump often enough and because those disagreements were very public. It could not have helped that Trump is a moron and that Tillerson said so.
Tillerson was presiding over a period of destruction of the state department. I would welcome his leaving if there were any hope that that destruction was not mandated from above. However, Trump does not seem to value the state department. We still don't even have an ambassador to South Korea.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1973 by PaulK, posted 03-13-2018 9:00 AM PaulK has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 1982 of 4573 (829774)
03-13-2018 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1981 by jar
03-13-2018 3:47 PM


Re: John McTee is out...KINDA
John McTee is out over security clearance but just moved to a campaign position.
McEntee's security clearance issue involves being investigated by Homeland Security for serious financial crimes. He was fired and thrown out on the 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue sidewalk.[1] Why is Trump having this guy join his campaign?
[1] Some hyperbola intended.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1981 by jar, posted 03-13-2018 3:47 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1983 by Taq, posted 03-13-2018 4:30 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1984 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-13-2018 4:32 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 1988 of 4573 (829884)
03-16-2018 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1987 by Percy
03-15-2018 6:37 PM


Re: Question About Trade With Canada
Naturally Trump doubled down on his lie earlier today, tweeting:
We do have a Trade Deficit with Canada, as we do with almost all countries (some of them massive). P.M. Justin Trudeau of Canada, a very good guy, doesn’t like saying that Canada has a Surplus vs. the U.S.(negotiating), but they do...they almost all do...and that’s how I know!
Actually, this level of dishonesty is worse than lying. Trump admitted to his donors that he had no idea whether we have a deficit with Canada when he was meeting with Trudeau. Given that he planned ahead of time to meet with Trudeau and to discuss the matter, not knowing the answer was absolutely asinine. The facts are that we have little to no trade imbalance with Canada, and Trudeau is well aware of that fact. Who is Trump laughing at? He did not fool anyone.
And then there is the quoted paragraph, where Trump comes up with some stupid reasoning in lieu of just checking the facts. Most countries have a surplus so therefore, Canada has one? Except that they don't.
A flat-out lie would be far more acceptable than this. Trump tried to buffoon his way through the meeting with Trudeau and then elected to brag about his own idiocy. And to what end? What does he think he accomplished?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1987 by Percy, posted 03-15-2018 6:37 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1989 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-16-2018 1:39 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 1991 of 4573 (829914)
03-16-2018 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1990 by jar
03-16-2018 7:05 AM


Re: McMaster out?
Is it possible that il Donald does not understand that it is not necessary to fire one apprentice every week?
It's difficult to complain about the folks being fired.
Trump's staffing has been an absolute disaster. McMaster was actually one of his better choices. But the overwhelming majority of the folks that are now gone should never have been anywhere near the White House.
And there is still a boatload of horrendous picks. Ben Carson and Betsy Devos[1] come to mind along with that joke of a financial advisor, Larry Kudlow that was just hired. Kudlow's most famous economic prediction is his late 2007 insistence that everything was okay.
When folks like this are hired, you almost have to give Trump some credit for kicking them out the door. At least you would if he had not picked them in the first place.
[1] Not to ignore Sessions, Pruitt, or Perry but Carson and Devos each have a charm all their own.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1990 by jar, posted 03-16-2018 7:05 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 1993 of 4573 (830154)
03-22-2018 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1992 by PaulK
03-22-2018 1:39 PM


Re: Trump lawyer resigns
PaulK writes:
John Dowd, leading Trump’s team dealing with the Mueller probe has resigned.
Thanks Paul. Here is my favorite part of the article. About a week ago, Trump tweeted thusly:
quote:
The Failing New York Times purposely wrote a false story stating that I am unhappy with my legal team on the Russia case and am going to add another lawyer to help out. Wrong. I am VERY happy with my lawyers, John Dowd, Ty Cobb and Jay Sekulow. They are doing a great job and
Then several days later Down is gone because Trump does not like his advice. "VERY happy" with his lawyers? ROFL. In other news, apparently other lawyers have turned down the opportunity to advise the president. Now why would any right thinking lawyer turn down the opportunity of a lifetime?
http://thehill.com/...top-law-firms-turned-down-trump-report
Really? Representing the president might damage your reputation? Who would have thought that?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1992 by PaulK, posted 03-22-2018 1:39 PM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1994 by jar, posted 03-22-2018 5:43 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2002 of 4573 (830986)
04-09-2018 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 2001 by Percy
04-09-2018 8:15 PM


Re: Trump Bullies Panama
This is (again, in my view) the worst single thing Trump has done. Agree or disagree with his actions on healthcare, tax cuts, trade, environment, etc., he did nothing improper.
I certainly believe that Trump has done improper things that are worse than this one. This particular action would appear to be blatantly illegal if Trump were involved, but then Trump is not overseeing the day to day activities of his hotels. Someone else is doing that. We can speculate on Trump's personal involvement here, but isn't that pretty much what we are doing for a lot of stuff?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2001 by Percy, posted 04-09-2018 8:15 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2003 by Percy, posted 04-11-2018 10:18 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2005 of 4573 (831046)
04-11-2018 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 2003 by Percy
04-11-2018 10:18 AM


Re: Trump Bullies Panama
But the trust and the sons' management is just a smokescreen. Trump still owns the business, and I believe Trump has just as much control over The Trump Organization as he ever did.
I agree. What I take issue with is the idea that this is somehow worse than the other stuff he has done. I had thought your argument was that you could attribute this directly to Trump in a way that made it blatantly illegal. But, first, the management by his sons is enough to remove the blatancy in my opinion.
How's that for chutzpah? They're aware that Panama has the same separation of executive and judiciary as the US, but they nonetheless request the Panamanian president's influence to resolve a judicial matter in their favor.
I get you. But private companies do this kind of crap all of the time. In some cases, we applaud countries for flaunting the local law. But, yeah, in this case we are talking about some extremely important democratic principles when we talk about judicial independence. At least we lefties seem to think that is an important principle. Trump and his supporters may not think it is all that important even here in the US.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2003 by Percy, posted 04-11-2018 10:18 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2008 by Percy, posted 04-12-2018 8:39 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2006 of 4573 (831085)
04-11-2018 7:11 PM


Loose lips sink ships
Here is our commander in chief disbursing his military planning via twitter. What could there possibly be to gain by taunting our adversaries over twitter? And what happened to the idea of not telling our plans before we take action?
quote:
Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria. Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nice and new and smart! You shouldn’t be partners with a Gas Killing Animal who kills his people and enjoys it!
Apparently, this dumbass had not discussed any of this stuff with anybody before tweeting. Meanwhile, Russia takes advantage of Trump and looks like a bunch of statesmen.
quote:
Konstantin Kosachev, the head of foreign affairs committee in the upper house of Russian parliament, said it's "really scary to think what kind of people control the largest military arsenal the planet has ever seen."
Earlier, President Vladimir Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov earlier said in televised remarks that "we don't participate in Twitter diplomacy," adding that "it's important not to make any steps that could further destabilize the already fragile situation."

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

Replies to this message:
 Message 2009 by NoNukes, posted 04-12-2018 2:36 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
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