"Natural" (plant-based) Health Solutions

Thanks. All the health gurus advise taking vitamin B12.Sounds like you've tried veganism yourself?It's too early for me to worry about the effects of a strict veganism anyway, since just getting to that point isn't going to happen right away. I've done a few days in a row *almost* without any meat or dairy or oil but not completely (some olive oil on the salad, a Tbs of butter to coat the roasted potatoes). My problem at the moment is that although I've been working up to it for some time, adding and dropping foods in that direction, I decided to do the total vegan thing very recently so I still have some meat and dairy in the fridge. I considered throwing it out but changed my mind, I'm going to eat it all first and then start on the total vegan thing. I do intend to give it a good try. I'm convinced but I still have to test it for myself. I could end up "veganish" in the end by continuing with some animal products though much fewer. At 75 and overweight I'd be only too happy if it worked for me the way so many others say it has for them. Anecdotes galore of course which would only attract the usual scorn so I probably won't post any.USING UP YOGURT
I enjoyed this so much I have to post it. You can make a cold yogurt soup this way, and make it with three different main ingredients, the rest being identical. Or just drink it. This morning I made it with a cucumber:In a blender:
Yogurt
Cucumber
---or cooked red beets (a beautiful pink drink),
---or avocado
A small piece of onion to taste
Dill weed to taste
Salt
BlendEdited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

All these guys are nutritionists, and most are MDs as well, and they all disagree on such things so your speculations are welcome. Besides, I agree with you. I'm going with the most oil-restrictive system to start but I don't think I'll choose to follow it in the end.Oil is eliminated in McDougall's "Starch Solution" and others in his camp. He says the food has enough fat in it. He even radically restricts nuts because of their oil and I think that's going way too far. Other health teachers don't so strictly restrict oils, but I want to try this version first, at least with respect to the oil restriction, not the whole diet. Partly because I need to lose weight and I know I put it all on because of the fat habits I acquired on the Atkins style diets. Fat is OK when you cut way back on carbs but when you add the carbs back into the mix along with the fats you gain weight. I may not be able to give up the oil anyway, I'll have to see how long I last. Oils are ridiculously calorie-dense and it should help if I can cut down on them at least.Whatever I end up with is probably going to be a combination of the features I like best or think will be best for me from the different versions out there.The testimonials to the miraculous effects of straight plant-based eating are amazing so I have to give it a good try. I finally accept most of what they say about meat and dairy, but I still have a doubt in the back of my mind if only because of the vitamin B12 you have to add to a wholly plant diet. But continuing with even a small amount of meat at this point would be counterproductive since the benefits claimed by so many are all from a purely plant diet.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

You probably aren't interested but I just have to mention that there are people who claim to have cured their lymphomas through a heavy-duty diet of vegetables and fruits and cutting out most meat and dairy. I'll refrain from getting more specific, and just let you check it out or ignore it as you wish, but I felt terrible when Asgara died after her hopeful post about outliving others on hospice and I'd rather not feel terrible about you too.. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I continue to watch videos about diet from time to time. Just now almost to the end of one at Netflix titled "In Defense of Food" which shows a lot of research into diet and nutrition, isn't vegan-oriented but does end up recommending eating a lot more plant foods than animal foods. There's a short segment on the diet views of Seventh Day Adventists, giving the statistic that vegetarian Adventists live four years longer than nonvegetarian Adventists, and six to nine years longer than the rest of us. A 99 year old vegetarian Adventist is shown at his dinner table full of beautiful colorful platters of veggies, really appealing food.I'm still struggling toward a more plant based diet myself, finding it hard to give up some dairy, though I do without meat OK. I am loving getting to eat fruits though, lots of berries for instance, and potatoes and beans and nuts. I think I'll probably continue to eat some meat and dairy though, even after I get a basic diet figured out, just not as much and not as often.

Are you following a particular diet system, Phat?I've only really learned about this whole plant-based movement in the last year or so, and even learned more in the last few months. I'd been running into vegan advice for a long time before that, though, when I looked up food questions, but didn't get an overview of the whole thing until pretty recently.This is a huge switch from the low carb Atkins style way of thinking I'd accepted for years, huge. When I finally decided I wanted to go this direction I found it a lot harder than I expected, but I am getting there bit by bit.I haven't eaten rice at all yet, but potatoes are a big necessary part of being able to do this thing at all. I also eat avocados. I don't think I'm any more tired now than I was before I started this new way of eating though, and if I were to guess what the main dietary problem is it's fat -- the butter and the cream I got too used to over the last few years that I'm finding so hard to give up. That's got to go and I'm working on trying some vegan style substitutes. I'm soaking some almonds right now toward making almond milk. I like it for the sweeter things like fruit smoothies but not sure it's going to work with, say, mashed potatoes. I guess I'll find out. Raw cashew "butter" is something I'll try soon.I'm watching yet another video on Netflix, Food Choices. The same basic message about plants over meat and dairy, amazing how many films there are about this now. And how right it seems too, the more I hear about it.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : fix punctuation

My energy may or may not return but if it does it will probably be because I get the NONplant foods out of my diet.There are of course lots of people saying how going plant-based has enormously improved their health in many ways, and maybe the most surprising thing is how competitive athletes claim to have MORE strength and ability when they give up animal proteins and switch to plant-based eating even without added protein.ABE: Oh, I should remember to say "whole foods plant-based" because there are many unhealthy ways to major in plants. The right way is almost like eating straight out of the garden.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

But it may not be, at least not a LOT less energy, it may be because of our lousy diets. And I'm still having difficulty getting disciplined enough to change mine for the better. I've made some big changes, but still can't break some bad habits. I understand this frame of mind, hearing study after study that shows the benefits of going plant-based on a huge range of human ailments from the trivial to the life-threatening and yet not being able to go all the way with it. What continues to bother me a lot, though, is the people who refuse to find out about it and keep their ailments thriving.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Actually God made all creatures herbivores originally. It was after the Flood that God told Noah to begin eating meat. No explanation was given but my guess would be it was the most efficient way to get all the nutrients into our systems after the Fall started the process of deterioration of all our food sources. However, we now raise animals for meat with drugs and other methods that aren't good for us or the environment, and we now have the means to improve the vegetable sources if we are willing to do it. In any case I'm talking about studies that show the benefits of going plant-based, lots of them. And just some simple facts such as that vegetarian Seventh Day Adventists live longer than the rest of us.I don't think I'm going to cut out meat and dairy altogether myself but I'm certainly cutting way back on them.abe: Most cultures of the world don't eat great amounts of meat anyway you know. The west is unusual in our emphasis on meat. Most other cultures use meat more as a flavoring of a basically plant-based diet.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Says someone who obviously hasn't read any of the studies on nutrition.

Or let me put it this way. Eating according to your guidelines should be a good way to eat, and most of your advice is part of the plant-based idea anyway. If everybody avoided processed foods we'd no doubt all be healthier. But the research that is being done on nutrition has been showing increasingly that health improves when plants are the main part of the diet, and especially when the diet is completely plant-based. It's just a fact.

What I don't understand is the hostility that is such a regular feature of any discussion here of any topic that's somewhat off the beaten path. I'm not stupid, I know what the standard diet is so I wouldn't be pushing something that is really just the standard recommended diet under a different name. The plates I see illustrating the basics of what I'm talking about have as many as ten to twelve different vegetables on them, both cooked and raw. A big salad may have twenty different ingredients. Even a bowl of oatmeal is often finished off with a fruit, ground flaxseeds, other seeds and nuts and nondairy milk. Morning smoothies are made with everything from greens and fruits to fruits with almond milk and that sort of thing. Some add protein powder, I put powdered Vitamin C in mine.There are at least a dozen different systems with similar protocols though there are also differences between them so that one food may be considered essential on one diet though forbidden on another. You have to read the reasoning involved and decide for yourself, but again, overall the whole plant-based arena is in agreement on the basics.Beans are a big part of most of them, and mixed greens, lots of both of those. Blueberries and strawberries are high on the list of antioxidant fruits on all of them, nuts of all kinds are used whole or ground or to make nut milks and butters, I only know of one system that says nuts should be avoided.I saw the statistic on the Seventh Day Adventists in a recent video I watched at Netflix, maybe the one called "Food Choices" or possibly "In Defense of Food." I gave the statistic in an earlier post too: vegetarian Adventists live a certain number of years longer than nonvegetarian Advantists and all Adventists even more years longer than nonAdventists. I've given the titles of lots of such films at Netflix and You Tube in this thread, plus talks given by different experts in the field. Most of them are good at giving the sources of research they mention.A juice aficionado called Joe Cross has had his film up on You Tube for a long time, "Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead" -- it's now on Netflix -- in which he chronicles his switch to vegetable juices and plant-based eating in general over a sixty-day period of nothing but juices, losing a lot of weight but also losing a skin disease and dropping a lot of medications. He now emphasizes the plant foods but also does eat some meat.Of course he's an extreme because he was seriously overweight and miserable with his various ailments, but many of these diets are aimed at people who are sick and want to get well. And the emphasis in all these presentation is in fact overcoming various diseases, so if you are healthy you can ignore all this, just stay with whatever is working. I've been accumulating ailments over the last few years which is my main incentive for making changes to my diet.Besides "Food Choices" and "In Defense of Food" and "Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead" I've also seen "Forks over Knives," "What the Health" and talks galore from such diet gurus as doctors Joel Fuhrman and John McDougall and Michael Greger and Dean Ornish and lots of others. There are many TED talks by nutrition experts.Dr. Anthony Lim who works with John McDougall gives an overview of a plant-based diet HERE and his emphasis is on curing diseases.However, despite the basic emphasis on diet as medicine it's been pretty dramatic to see how many competitive athletes have switched to plant foods and claim greater strength and stamina.And then there is Annette Larkins who simply started a garden in her yard in Florida a few decades ago and started eating mostly what she grows there, raw, and became famous for maintaining her youth and energy, so far into her seventies. HERE's a short interview with her.I've tried to be clear that what is meant by a plant-based diet is a WHOLE FOODS plant-based diet, or like eating out of your garden, avoiding all processed foods and fast foods like fries. Lim says it is possible to be "vegan" and eat nothing but unhealthy foods like those, so think fresh grown whole foods.Yes I know it's a lot to ask to watch and read so much but in my experience it isn't isolated studies that have been influencing me, it's exposing myself to a whole range of ideas and information in this arena, and if all you want is a few studies to discuss I'm not really interested. Studies are presented in almost all the talks and videos I've seen anyway. I might eventually post some of those when I can, but meanwhile, if you object to what I'm saying, so be it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Well, that's just wrong. I had none of my current views on food when I started paying attention to all this. And as for making money, why not make it teaching good nutrition as much as anything else a person does. Seems to me you're the biased one. You wouldn't have these objections if the subject was something you favor.

You don't know one thing about how I've come by my beliefs even though I've described them so many times. Who do you guys think you are that you can tell other people why they think as they do? Why do such discussions always become ad hominem accusations anyway? Hey I'm very sure you are an atheist because you want to be, not because you are actually persuaded, and that you believe a healthy diet of vegetables is "snake oil" because you're crazy. What other explanation could there be?I was NOT looking for God when I finally became a Christian, and I was in fact not leaning toward vegan or vegetarianism at all when I got into all the plant-based stuff either, I was pretty much committed to Atkins style eating which is far from this though I did need a solution to the carb problem. In fact I only really turned the corner into this style of eating about six months ago when I reconnected with an old friend (not a Christian) who turned out to be into it. She recommended some of the films I've posted here and I got convinced that way.In both cases I came across information that started to turn me in a new direction for me, the way most of us learn anything.Get off the stupid ad hominems. If you want to eat meat, eat meat, I'm not telling you not to. I'm not even totally opposed to eating meat. But I am ticked off at people who dismiss my views out of hand and who refuse to consider that their own standard way of eating might be flawed.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Steel cut oatmeal with a big spoonful of ground flax, some almond nut butter, some blueberries. Yum. Some people add a mashed ripe banana for sweetness, and soy milk or almond milk. I don't need either myself.A plate of chopped greens: spinach, chard and kale, with ground flaxseeds, black beans, mashed potatoes on top. Olive oil and lemon juice dressing on all of it. Yum.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Neither veganism nor vegetarianism is a fad, NN, and the principles all this information is based on are pretty sound. But I'm sure it will evolve somewhat over time, different systems may merge and so on. But as long as the facts are true, that the nutritional content of the foods identified as those we should be eating remains true, there is no reason to consider this a fad, all that will remain true and useful for our diets.And I think the information out there IS pretty great and reliable. You would unfortunately have to watch some of those films though.Nothing I've been so passionate about has been a fad, has it? I'm still as passionate about my view of the Grand Canyon as ever for instance.Somebody said God made us omnivorous and I pointed out that the Biblical God did not and you use that as an excuse to dismiss what I'm saying?Oh well.