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Author Topic:   "Natural" (plant-based) Health Solutions
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 348 of 606 (828978)
02-28-2018 3:25 AM
Reply to: Message 347 by RAZD
02-27-2018 8:29 PM


Re: RAZD:
Just take it slow, use wisdom, and patience. You got this fight!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by RAZD, posted 02-27-2018 8:29 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 350 of 606 (829647)
03-11-2018 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by Faith
03-10-2018 2:12 PM


Re: evidence mounts in favor of plants over meat
You are probably wise at reducing dairy and meats. My only advice would be to drop a few servings of rice and potatoes and add avocados. as you fine tune the mix, your bodys wisdom will take over and the balance between carbs and fat will occur naturally. Seems to me that you have no energy sometimes because you have too much sugar slowing you sown....cut back just a bit and balance that. the energy will return.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Faith, posted 03-10-2018 2:12 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 351 by ringo, posted 03-11-2018 2:40 PM Phat has replied
 Message 352 by Faith, posted 03-11-2018 2:48 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 355 of 606 (829707)
03-12-2018 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 351 by ringo
03-11-2018 2:40 PM


Re: evidence mounts in favor of plants over meat
perhaps I should have said the energy will return relatively speaking....I didnt expect Faith to become 21 again!
There are plenty of 70-year-olds who can run laps around me!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by ringo, posted 03-11-2018 2:40 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 409 of 606 (830034)
03-20-2018 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 406 by Faith
03-20-2018 10:24 AM


Re: There are plenty of studies
I support you in this path to health which you are on and which you seek. I too have a similar path, and although you and I have reached different conclusions as to our diets and means of achieving our goals, our paths are similar. Currently, i am studying one supplement which i brought up over in my Addiction By Definition thread. The ideal type of diet which I feel is best for my body type and my type II diabetes is a lower carb, good fats, minimal protein type of diet. Quite honestly, I know as much about the science behind this regimen as any of our members here at EvC, and I say that unapologetically and not arrogantly.
In the end, I am responsible for my health---no Doctor can cure me nor can any human except God (as Jesus) and though this comment alone will provide snickers from the peanut gallery, it only means that my intuitive wisdom and my choices and decisions about what to eat and about what if any supplements to take are mine alone.
I encourage you to focus on healthy servings of vegetables and some good fats, and to cut back on most of the processed protein(meat) that sells today in the United States. Organic Chicken, though more expensive, is good in moderation with your vegetables, and also wild salmon. I will say that the NT Lipids are expensive, and you likely cannot afford them, but if you balance your diet from being a sugar burner into more of a fat burner, you will eventually gain energy, though it takes a good month of self-discipline.
Trust me, I know how hard it is to become motivated to change---it took me many months of Contemplation before I could begin to prepare my strategy and determnine the best course of action. Tangle claims, perhaps rightly, that I am obsessive over what should be a normal part of everyday life. All i can say is that eating the way that I should has never came naturally to me, and I amk cautiously optimistic that my attention to detail will bring success. I am also aware of jars observation that I (and perhaps you also) tend to prefer fantasy over reality, but I will state for the record that there is no quick fix nor any magic involved in a good diet. It is 100% reality.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by Faith, posted 03-20-2018 10:24 AM Faith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 410 of 606 (830037)
03-20-2018 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 405 by jar
03-20-2018 10:14 AM


Re: There are plenty of studies
jar,replying to Faith writes:
The difference is of course related to entirely diametric thought processes. Faith belongs to the group that totally turns off any analysis at all and places total believe in the marketing...
Though I will admit that I do read and watch a lot of information that could be construed as marketing, i also follow the trail outside of the products which they are trying to push to examine any available science behind them.
I challenge you to prove that there is not legitimate science behind the many studies involving the mitochondria and whether or not science can help rebuild damaged mitochondria within the human body.
Yiou will find much more than simply marketing.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by jar, posted 03-20-2018 10:14 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by jar, posted 03-20-2018 12:00 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 455 of 606 (830165)
03-23-2018 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 412 by jar
03-20-2018 12:00 PM


NT Energy Lipids Powder
First, do you even have a clue what mitochondria are?
I thought that I did, but I never learned anything in science class....most of my learning *does* come from marketing and testimonials. That much I will admit. But I believe in my intuitive ability to discriminate between snake oils and valid claims.
And if you want to discuss a study then you need to provide a link to the study, not to some video or marketing piece but to the specific study.
Whats so wrong with a video?
Dr.Nicolson founded Institute For Molecular Medicine
Does anyone think that this man does not know what he is talking about or whether he has a vested interest in promoting any particular company?
Professor Garth Nicolson discusses lipid replacement therapy and what some of the results might be. He also talks about a test you can take to see if lipid replacement therapy might work for you.
I actually wrote him and am awaiting a reply.Does anyone actually doubt the credentials of Professor Nicolson?
Sometimes I think that you people are too skeptical and will end up undecided on many things due to lack of evidence. They have done the studies. There is evidence.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by jar, posted 03-20-2018 12:00 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 458 by jar, posted 03-23-2018 4:12 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 459 of 606 (830172)
03-23-2018 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 458 by jar
03-23-2018 4:12 PM


Re: NT Energy Lipids Powder
Lipid replacement therapy: a nutraceutical approach for reducing cancer-associated fatigue and the adverse effects of cancer therapy while restoring mitochondrial function
There is evidence that sufficient studies have been done to associate fatigue and oxidation/degradation of mitochondrial membranes and to support the idea that lipids can rejuvenate themselves given a pure source.
I don't know why you want me to sift through all of these studies. Why can't I simply trust the conclusions of Garth Nicolson? As this study itself says, The author has no financial interest in any products discussed in this contribution.
I myself will determine the effectiveness or lack thereof of this product or others similar to it through testing it on myself. I'm in somewhat of a common agreement with Faith regarding the futility of trying to convince anyone around here of anything. Its likely the same reason not many of you believe in God. You are too skeptical of the information.
Granted there is a protocol used with the Scientific Method, and it is not wise to simply believe every huckster promising to cure warts...but you place far too much trust in a medical establishment that is itself ignorant and willfully uninformed as to the best approach to health. Its like my Endocrinologist. She insists that I take large doses of insulin, when in fact insulin ages the human body, has been proven to increase insulin resistance the higher it is given, and supports my taking of black boxed drugs that are stressful and harmful to the human body.
Wait until I see her on April 10th and get a good A1C reading after I have thrown away my Trulicity Medication that they have been taught to prescribe by a corrupt pharmaceutical industry.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by jar, posted 03-23-2018 4:12 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 460 by NoNukes, posted 03-23-2018 7:03 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 480 of 606 (830221)
03-25-2018 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 477 by jar
03-25-2018 8:37 AM


Re: And once again Faith posts utter false nonsense.
jar writes:
The problem Faith is that you do not know how to think, how to analyze an issue, how to evaluate evidence or even what evidence is.
I dont think that you have covered every argument.
Note this article: How Critical Thinkers Lose Their Faith in God where the argument is made that Religious belief drops when analytical thinking rises. You have been taught to critically examine everything and to throw away concepts that clash with logic, reason, and reality. Some of us are more intuitive, however.
Scientific American writes:
...new research suggests that whether we believe may also have to do with how much we rely on intuition versus analytical thinking. In 2011 Amitai Shenhav, David Rand and Joshua Greene of Harvard University published a paper showing that people who have a tendency to rely on their intuition are more likely to believe in God. They also showed that encouraging people to think intuitively increased people’s belief in God. Building on these findings, in a recent paper published in Science, Will Gervais and Ara Norenzayan of the University of British Columbia found that encouraging people to think analytically reduced their tendency to believe in God.
Lest we stray too far off this threads main topic, let's carry this over into natural foods, supplements, and the arguments behind them. Faith was merely defending my intuitive conclusion that Dr.Garth Nicolson was not simply trying to sell a product but was, rather, an expert in the field who had himself conducted numerous studies regarding Lipid Replacement Therapy as a means of improving human energy levels for people suffering from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Cancer, and other chronic health problems.
It is irrelevant whether Faith or I believe that Demons exist in this context, except to point out our similarity in trusting intuition over analytical research.
The Scientific American article explains the contrast between her and my thinking patterns vs many of you.
Gervais and Norenzayan’s research is based on the idea that we possess two different ways of thinking that are distinct yet related. Understanding these two ways, which are often referred to as System 1 and System 2, may be important for understanding our tendency towards having religious faith. System 1 thinking relies on shortcuts and other rules-of-thumb while System 2 relies on analytic thinking and tends to be slower and require more effort. Solving logical and analytical problems may require that we override our System 1 thinking processes in order to engage System 2. (...)Since System 2 thinking requires a lot of effort, the majority of us tend to rely on our System 1 thinking processes when possible. Evidence suggests that the majority of us are more prone to believing than being skeptical. According to a 2005 poll by Gallup, 3 out of every 4 Americans hold at least one belief in the paranormal.
Of course, a majority of Americans belong to your oft-touted "culture of ignorance" and I have learned how to think analytically from time to time, but both Faith and I are too old (and tired)to bother with such tedious work in most cases.
It just frustrates us that so many of you refuse to believe or engage in intuition but would rather be forever analytical and methodical. At the end of the day, I will choose the diets that I engage in and the supplements...if any...that I use, and you can keep going to the so-called expert medical doctors who (you will someday agree with us) ... are not the last word on many forms of treatment. My Endocrinologist is a prime example.
Though I did take your advice a few months ago and consulted a Psychiatrist regarding some issues which I had, it was not the suggested medications that brought my optimism and vibrancy back. It was a will to live and a sound diet. I'm sure that Faith feels much the same way. You guys really should stop picking on her in her own thread. The topic is Natural Plant Based Solutions.
The method which Faith has chosen is intuition, not critical nor tedious analytical thinking.
Regarding the NT Lipids:
PaulK writes:
Given the fact that there are sound reasons for suspecting that this might be another useless supplement - I think it is certainly better to look at the evidence rather than rely on an advertisement.
It is my opinion that Dr.Nicolsons videos are not an advertisement.
What are your sound reasons PaulK? I would like to hear your analytical thinking on this.
AddbyEdit: And jar, just because some of us use intuition is no reason to insult us as if analytical thinking is the only solution. Though I will agree with you that we can be wrong more often than can a strict analytical thinker, I also believe that you guys can follow the evidence right off a cliff due to your refusal to embrace intuition.
Edited by Phat, : added comment

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 477 by jar, posted 03-25-2018 8:37 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 484 by jar, posted 03-25-2018 12:03 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 485 by PaulK, posted 03-25-2018 12:26 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 482 of 606 (830223)
03-25-2018 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 481 by Faith
03-25-2018 11:25 AM


Re: NT Energy Lipids Powder
As for the NT Lipids Powder, I'll be able to tell if it is a simple placebo or if it actually works within six months. Hopefully, my intuition was right in this case.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Faith, posted 03-25-2018 11:25 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 486 by Faith, posted 03-25-2018 1:35 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 553 of 606 (830353)
03-27-2018 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 443 by Faith
03-21-2018 10:08 PM


Insulin as culprit regarding many diseases
Granny writes:
Mainstream clinicians advise their patients to eat less saturated fat, and take on fewer calories. Cross did exactly that and his health improved. This is no surprise.
Faith writes:
And how often does that mainstream diet radically change the patient's health for the better? No, Cross specifically benefited from the nutritive value of the foods he was taking in.
Granny writes:
There are thousands of professional dietitians around the world who practise dietary interventions on a daily basis. Numerous maladies are treated through diet. There is nothing remarkable or "alternative" about this.
Faith writes:
Sure they "treat" them but they have no expectation of curing them, or even getting them off their meds; and they aren't reporting the radical cures of the totally plant-based regimes.
I cannot speak for everyone, since we are all uniquely different and respond to different diets. Some of us, like myself, benefit from low insulin, low carbohydrate diets. Others benefit from healthy carbohydrates. Dr.Ron Rosedale is an expert and is at the cutting edge of this science, and though some of you may think he is another carny barker selling something, I can assure you that my intuition is not wrong on this one.
Here is a talk that he once had. Read it if you dare, and tell me that his science is not on point.
Insulin and its metabolic effects
(Yes, I know it is on Mercolas website, but Rosedale himself is not selling anything. He once had an office here in Denver and my friend, who at the time was 300 pounds, diabetic, and dying, went to see Dr. Rosedale and now lives in Greece, weighs 225 pounds, and is off all medications. In the case of my own health, I will no longer listen to my Endocrinologist who does nothing for me but prescribe more insulin, Trulicity, and statin lowering drugs. Granted I am responsible to maintain the healthy diet, but this is not a gamble. It is indeed a sure bet.)

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 443 by Faith, posted 03-21-2018 10:08 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 555 by PaulK, posted 03-27-2018 4:39 PM Phat has replied
 Message 558 by Granny Magda, posted 03-27-2018 7:07 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 554 of 606 (830354)
03-27-2018 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 412 by jar
03-20-2018 12:00 PM


Re: There are plenty of studies
jar writes:
First, do you even have a clue what mitochondria are?
And if you want to discuss a study then you need to provide a link to the study, not to some video or marketing piece but to the specific study.
I do know what mitochondria are and what they do. The heart contains the most of them. As for the science behind lower insulin and health, I have read plenty of studies. It is my contention that Type II Diabetes, of which I have, can be better controlled through lower insulin rather than higher insulin. I don't like to gamble with my health, and I am not simply listening to what you would call the snake oil salesmen. Much has been learned in the past twenty years about this science, and many Doctors now advocate it.
Faith herself would likely benefit from a combination of a lower insulin good fat diet with lots of healthy vegetables. She just needs to cut back on sugars and high glycemic carbs so that she will have more energy.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by jar, posted 03-20-2018 12:00 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 556 of 606 (830358)
03-27-2018 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 555 by PaulK
03-27-2018 4:39 PM


Re: Insulin as culprit regarding many diseases
His recommendations are ridiculously elaborate and are not supported by good evidence.
You and I can do dualing articles all day, but the evidence is in the results. I know Tiffany Binder personally, as she used to be an associate of Ron Rosedale here in Denver. My friend Chris, who like me had moderate to severe type 2 diabetes, was dying using the regimen prescribed for him by traditional medicine. (Insulin, statins, and the AMA recommended diabetic diet. Additionally, in the 3 weeks that I have been on a low carb diet and vegetables, and by cutting out half of my medications (yes, the Doctor knows...they don't recommend it but we shall see my numbers next visit April 10th) I already feel much better, the swelling in my legs has gone down tremendously and I have more energy.
So you can warn me about faddists yet you do not know as much about the science behind this diet as I do...
article cited by PaulK writes:
Rosedale is supremely confident that he knows how to overcome leptin resistance, prolong life, and improve health. He could be right, but I am skeptical. (...)Like any other claim, this one will have to be tested in controlled studies before mainstream medicine can accept it. Even if there is a layer of truth in Rosedale’s hypothesis, the truth is buried under a laundry list of specific recommendations that don’t make sense and are not based on any credible evidence.
Without controlled testing, we don’t have any credible evidence that this diet works as claimed or is safe, but we don’t have any evidence that it doesn’t work or isn’t safe either, so if anyone wanted to try it, I wouldn’t object.
Fair enough. This gets back to my point about intuition versus analytical thinking.
How Critical Thinkers Lose Their Faith in God
You are wise to examine the evidence, but my contention is that Dr.Rosedale is ahead of many Doctors...my own Endocrinologist included.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 555 by PaulK, posted 03-27-2018 4:39 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 562 by PaulK, posted 03-28-2018 1:22 AM Phat has replied
 Message 563 by Faith, posted 03-28-2018 1:36 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 564 of 606 (830376)
03-28-2018 3:26 AM
Reply to: Message 558 by Granny Magda
03-27-2018 7:07 PM


Re: Insulin as culprit regarding many diseases
Its not just Rosedales idea. There are reputable studies that tote the effectiveness of reduced insulin and low carb diets fior diabetics.
Nutritional management is an important component
in the treatment of type 2 diabetes.
Dr.Jason Fung is another advocate of such diets.
He is a kidney expert. Would he not know? Or are you gonna claim that he is just selling books also?
also watch this TED Talk.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 558 by Granny Magda, posted 03-27-2018 7:07 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 565 by PaulK, posted 03-28-2018 3:59 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 586 by Granny Magda, posted 03-31-2018 11:29 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 573 of 606 (830430)
03-29-2018 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 562 by PaulK
03-28-2018 1:22 AM


Re: Insulin as culprit regarding many diseases
PaulK writes:
I may not know much - but that is why I check with people who know more.
It’s your health at stake and I would advise you to be very careful with it. If your diabetes has progressed to the point where you need insulin you are at risk.
I am a Type II Diabetic, and thankfully my pancreas still makes enough insulin to cover me should I need it. I apologize for sounding somewhat arrogant claiming I know more about this stuff than all of you---I don't---I too am learning. The topic of diet and what constitutes the best one for certain individuals is contested to this day even among medical professionals. No two people are alike--and what works for me may not be what you or Faith or anyone else needs. Dr.Jason Fung, though admittedly selling books on the subject, appears to me to be a credible source of wisdom. Critics will accuse me of being lazy and not doing my own scientific research on the subject, but whenever it comes to something that affects me personally, I DO my homework. You say that "if my diabetes has progressed to the point where I need insulin..." but what you need to understand is that just because my doctors have prescribed the insulin does not mean that I actually need as much as they prescribe. (I know you guys don't trust nor watch videos, but in this one Dr.Fung defends his science on the matter)
My Endocrinologist and I don't agree on the science, and though she has the credentials on her side, I have personal evidence that the low carb low insulin approach is better for my health. Her concern is treating the symptom---my high blood sugar. Research shows, however, that in the matter of insulin resistance, extra insulin actually increases the resistance and makes the problem worse in the long term. I see her a week from today, so I will share what our conversation was at that appointment.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 562 by PaulK, posted 03-28-2018 1:22 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 576 by PaulK, posted 03-29-2018 9:46 AM Phat has replied
 Message 581 by NoNukes, posted 03-29-2018 11:25 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 574 of 606 (830431)
03-29-2018 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 563 by Faith
03-28-2018 1:36 AM


Re: Insulin as culprit regarding many diseases
Faith writes:
Amazingly I actually agree with PaulK about this, Phat. I've understood that if your blood sugar is at the level where they prescribe insulin it is very serious, and important to keep it controlled with the insulin. If your diet does bring down your blood sugar level THEN you can start getting off the insulin.
The problem is, as long as I am taking the extra insulin, my legs swell and I dont get better. I am continually tired, and the diet which they approve of has too many carbs which is why the extra insulin is prescribed in the first place---to bring down high sugars. Unlike you, I have measureable insulin resistance. My argument, which I wage with my Doctors, is that extra insulin causes further insulin resistance. They counter that the insulin is necessary to control the high sugars, which is their primary concern. The only real way out of this for me, at age 58, was to take control of my diet and my insulin.
Dr.Fung explains the science behind lowering the insulin, and I am not too worried about my insulin dropping too low at this point. I am prescribed both short-acting and long-acting insulin. I still take the long-acting but am fighting to discontinue the short-acting provided my meals are not high carb meals which require higher insulin to digest.
Again, my argument is that continual reliance on higher insulin doses only increases the insulin resistance which led to the problem in the first place.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

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 Message 563 by Faith, posted 03-28-2018 1:36 AM Faith has not replied

  
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