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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 408 of 3207 (828846)
02-25-2018 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 407 by Rrhain
02-25-2018 6:27 AM


Rrhain writes:
So, if you're going to abandon your burden, then my job is truly easy:
It's your claim. So off you go, prove it. That's how it works. And no, I'm not going to argue definitions with you, pick you hardest one you like.
Things with no definition do not exist.
"God" has no definition.
Therefore, "god" does not exist.
This is crap logic, everything in the universe existed before we defined it. But no matter, just get on with the job of proving god doesn't exist with science, not word play.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 407 by Rrhain, posted 02-25-2018 6:27 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 414 by Rrhain, posted 02-26-2018 3:50 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 415 of 3207 (828881)
02-26-2018 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 414 by Rrhain
02-26-2018 3:50 AM


Rrhain writes:
Only when there's a definition of "god."
Look, you claimed to be able to disprove the existence of God using science. I therefore expect you to know what a god is and use science to disprove it. I expect you to be able to point to substantial peer reviewed research in an authorative publication to back it up. That's how science is done.
If you can't even get started without resorting to fake debating tactics I can only assume that you're full of crap.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 414 by Rrhain, posted 02-26-2018 3:50 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by Rrhain, posted 02-26-2018 9:38 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 423 of 3207 (828915)
02-27-2018 2:45 AM
Reply to: Message 421 by Rrhain
02-26-2018 9:38 PM


Rrhain writes:
And as soon as you provide a definition of "god," I'll be on the hook for backing up my claim.
Nope, you claimed you could disprove the existence of god using science. The assumption therefore is that you know what a god is.
If you don't know what a god is, you can't know that you can disprove him.
It's game over, your claim is merely a spurious undergraduate debating tactic about what we mean by mean. If it's not, I suggest you get on with your proof, kill off god. After all this is something the world has been trying to do since the dawn of time.
You're a bit like Faith, sat on the proofs that would earn her the Nobel Prize for disproving, well, pretty much all science, but somehow not quite getting round to it.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by Rrhain, posted 02-26-2018 9:38 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 424 by Rrhain, posted 02-27-2018 3:46 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 425 of 3207 (828921)
02-27-2018 5:39 AM
Reply to: Message 424 by Rrhain
02-27-2018 3:46 AM


Rrhain writes:
You're the one claiming that disproving god can't be done
I sure am. I certainly can't do it and despite a very large amount of reading I've done on the subject, I haven't seen anyone else do it either. But you know, I could be wrong, I'm just waiting for this proof.
And here you are claiming that you can do it so it's all terribly exciting. The world is waiting. Yet weirdly, you don't seem to want to produce the goods. Instead you want to weasel about playing word games. What do you mean by god - how disingenuous is that? There is only one conclusion.
Are we done here?
It certainly seems that you are.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 424 by Rrhain, posted 02-27-2018 3:46 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 427 by Rrhain, posted 02-27-2018 7:00 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 428 of 3207 (828979)
02-28-2018 3:56 AM
Reply to: Message 427 by Rrhain
02-27-2018 7:00 PM


Ok, it's clear you can't even begin to defend your claim. But anytime you'd like to set out your scientific case for the non-existence of god get back to us.
'bye for now.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Rrhain, posted 02-27-2018 7:00 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 429 by dwise1, posted 02-28-2018 6:03 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 435 by Rrhain, posted 03-03-2018 11:01 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 430 of 3207 (828994)
02-28-2018 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 429 by dwise1
02-28-2018 6:03 AM


Dwise1 writes:
Truly there is no scientific proof that any of the gods do not exist nor can there be.
I know, but Rrhain says he has a proof. But it's a secret so he's not telling anyone.
However! There is indeed proof that the YEC god does not exist!
It think that's proof that those holding particular beliefs about a young earth etc are wrong about them, not that their god doesn't exist. They're just not reading his runes properly.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 429 by dwise1, posted 02-28-2018 6:03 AM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 431 by Faith, posted 02-28-2018 11:06 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 432 of 3207 (829008)
02-28-2018 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 431 by Faith
02-28-2018 11:06 AM


Faith writes:
Have you tried adding up the years from Adam to the Flood?
No I haven't Faith, it's not really my thing.
But lots of strange people have and consequently been proven wrong. Just like those that use the bible stories to calculate the end of days, they're all wackos. If they're even convinced AFTER the predicted day of the end has passed that the bible is factual, what chance of them being convinced of a historical date for a mythical flood is also wrong?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 431 by Faith, posted 02-28-2018 11:06 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 437 by Rrhain, posted 03-03-2018 11:11 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 438 of 3207 (829172)
03-04-2018 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 437 by Rrhain
03-03-2018 11:11 PM


Rrhain writes:
Is there a reason why you deny that which you were able to do?
I refer you to message 430. You wish to confuse beliefs about god with the existence of god. But you know this.
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 437 by Rrhain, posted 03-03-2018 11:11 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 439 by Rrhain, posted 03-08-2018 3:11 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 440 of 3207 (829485)
03-08-2018 3:26 AM
Reply to: Message 439 by Rrhain
03-08-2018 3:11 AM


Rrhain writes:
Make your choice.
I have made my choice, it was and is to hold you to your claim that you can prove the non-existence of god using science.
Unsurprisingly to anyone here you have failed to do this. But I live in (not much) hope.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 439 by Rrhain, posted 03-08-2018 3:11 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 441 by Phat, posted 03-08-2018 10:38 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 443 by Rrhain, posted 03-08-2018 6:40 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 442 of 3207 (829525)
03-08-2018 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 441 by Phat
03-08-2018 10:38 AM


Phat writes:
It seems to me that all that rrhain can do is disprove the validity of one's definitions.
Not quite, what he wants to do is argue definitional semantics instead of what he claims he can do which is disprove the existence of god. He knows he's wrong, hence the disingenuous diversion.
Since he believes that something undefined cannot exist, he claims victory.
Which of course is pure crap. Atoms, giraffes and rocks existed before they were defined.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 441 by Phat, posted 03-08-2018 10:38 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 445 by Rrhain, posted 03-08-2018 7:31 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 446 of 3207 (829545)
03-09-2018 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 445 by Rrhain
03-08-2018 7:31 PM


Rrhain writes:
Incorrect. What I want are physical traits that can be compared against reality to determine if there are contradictions for if there are, then that means god does not exist.
Then I suggest you get on with it. Do what you claimed to be able to do, else stfu. I'm not going to do your work for you.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 445 by Rrhain, posted 03-08-2018 7:31 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 447 by Phat, posted 03-09-2018 10:06 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 453 by Rrhain, posted 03-09-2018 5:28 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 452 of 3207 (829567)
03-09-2018 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 447 by Phat
03-09-2018 10:06 AM


Re: The Irony
Phat writes:
The atheist ended up winning the debate due to superior logic, but the attitude was one of intellectual smugness and contrasted with the humility of the Christians.
You prefer to be humble and wrong to smug and right?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 447 by Phat, posted 03-09-2018 10:06 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 456 of 3207 (829591)
03-10-2018 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 453 by Rrhain
03-09-2018 5:28 PM


Rrhain writes:
Is the definition of "god" incorrect? If so, how?
If you need to get into a Monty Python definitional debate about what words mean, you've failed before you've begun.
If your entire point is that people have many different ideas of what god is, well, hoozah! Who knew? But you claimed you could disprove god using science. Let's see you disprove them all one by one followed by the general concept of God itself. Off you go. Get back to me when your book is published.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 453 by Rrhain, posted 03-09-2018 5:28 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 457 by Rrhain, posted 03-13-2018 8:27 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 458 of 3207 (829783)
03-14-2018 3:42 AM
Reply to: Message 457 by Rrhain
03-13-2018 8:27 PM


Rrhain writes:
Off you go. Get back to me when you have decided to justify your own argument.
My argument is that no-one has yet proven the non-existence of god, scientifically or otherwise. That's non-contraversial. You claim you can, so get on with it or shut up. I'm not doing your work for you.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 457 by Rrhain, posted 03-13-2018 8:27 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 459 by kjsimons, posted 03-14-2018 9:25 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 470 by Rrhain, posted 03-18-2018 12:00 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 460 of 3207 (829808)
03-14-2018 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 459 by kjsimons
03-14-2018 9:25 AM


Kj writes:
I'm with Rrhain on this, which god where has ever really been defined? There are stories of gods galore, but no real usable definition of one. Everyone seems to have their own personal definition of what god is which seems to point to each of us creating our own nonexistent personal god. Without a clear god to disprove, it would be a fool's errand to even try.
I agree it’s a fool’s errand, unfortunately Rrhain said he could do it.
Now if he wants a discussion about what a God is he’s quite welcome to start a new thread; I won’t be joining it. Meanwhile, he’s left himself the large job of not only disproving all the individual theistic gods we’ve made up for all of our religions but also the deistic disinterested gods that made the soil we stand on and usually everything else as well but seemingly take no further interest. Worthy of a book or two I think.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 459 by kjsimons, posted 03-14-2018 9:25 AM kjsimons has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 471 by Rrhain, posted 03-18-2018 12:03 AM Tangle has not replied

  
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