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Author | Topic: The Trump Presidency | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
The document passed from the Russians to Donald Jr. represents an "other thing of value" Is that your best argument? That is a serious stretch, but at least your position is out there, and we all understand it. I'm not convinced. ABE:
Percy writes: That may be true since whether there was a conspiracy is for a jury to decide This is probably not true. Issues of law for always decided by the court, meaning the judge. The judge will interpret the law. He will either do it prior to trial or after the presentation of the case in instructions to the jury. Whether or not passing on information is included as "value" under the statute would certainly be a question of law and not a question of fact. Questions of law are also treated differently on appeal. The appellate courts review issues of law under a de novo standard, while they can perform only a limited review on other questions that arise in a trial. Appellate courts are completely free to substitute their ruling on a matter of law for the original court's view, while they are supposed to give deference to the lower court's decision on fact issues. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I'm not clear on what you mean. That the document was not "an other thing of value"? I am not asking whether the document had a value. I am asking the legal question of whether the document was "an other thing of value" as targetted under the act. That question is not going to be answered simply by consulting a dictionary. You may need to read the statute, its surrounding notes, consider precedent, the legislative history, the problem the legislature is trying to address, etc. The question might well have a constitutional dimension. In this case, we know that Congress was concerned with keeping the foreign money and other money like things (like free labor, free airtime) from being a part of the election. Yet we also understand that under our laws, foreigners are free to post derogatory information on Twitter, but that paid for campaigns are forbidden. In my view, that rationale suggests that providing a dirt document would likely not something Congress was targetting.
Off-topic, but this is a pet peeve of mine. I understand the need for finality regarding facts, especially in an era of endless appeals and and "new" facts and witnesses recanting and so forth, but I've read too many examples in the news of cases of the courts sticking with the original facts way beyond the point of reasonability. That is an understandable concern. The primary reason for not having appellate courts take a new look at facts is that part of assessing the truth is seeing the testimony of the witnesses, and making attempts to judge their credibility. The judge/jury does not just look at a transcript, they also observe the demeanor of the witnesses and the questioner, whether or not the witness is fidgeting, pulling at his color, sweating, looking folks in the eye, etc. Evidence that appears weighty can easily be dismissed if it is offered by a party that is not credible. On the other hand, the appellate courts do not hold trials, and they don't have access to the information that the triers of fact have. If there is new evidence that was unavailable at trial, perhaps that warrants a new trial, but the appellate court won't hold that trial. If instead, we are talking about old evidence that could have been presented, well choices of what to present and not to present are matters of strategy. If you guess wrong, fairness would not require that you get a do-over. I am not going to pretend that the current process is ideal. I know that some folks get the shaft because of desire for finality of judgment. But there are reasons why there are limits on what courts can do. Edited by NoNukes, : address more stuff Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
CPAC Official Says Michael Steele Was Chosen to Lead G.O.P. Because He’s ‘a Black Guy’ - The New York Times
Ian Walters, a spokesperson for CPAC said that in a speech at CPAC that Mr. [Michael] Steele was chosen as [RNC] chairman because he is a black guy.
quote: Walter's later attempted some sort of apology but Michael Steel did not accept it.
quote: Before we dismiss Mr. Walter's comment as one man's stupidity, let's look at another reaction from CPAC CPAC's Schlapp, ex-RNC Chairman Steele have tense exchange over racial comment | Fox News
quote: quote: Apparently, criticism of the Republican party, and of Mr. Trump justify the use of the kind of "unfortunate words" directed towards Mr. Steele. It is also equally apparent that black members of the Republican party are expected to tolerate "unfortunate words" if even the weakest of apologies are offered. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
No publicly available information tells us that Papodopoulos told Donald Jr, Jared Kushner or Paul Mannafort about the Clinton campaign emails the Russian had stolen, but we can be sure that a climber like Papodopoulos told at least one of them and probably all of them (directly or indirectly) of what he had learned. Given this, it seems very unlikely that the Trump Tower meeting was a "nothing meeting" I agree regarding the likelihood that the meeting was not a "nothing meeting", but to date, we have nothing other than speculation about any illegal activity that might have occurred at the meeting. At least with regards to that document, we have some concrete evidence about how it related to the discussion.
Every time Mueller takes public action we learn that he knows far more than anyone guessed he knew, and I think this pattern is likely to continue. That is, I think Mueller knows what was said at the meeting, and he knows about other meetings that aren't currently public knowledge and what was said at them. I'd like to believe that, but for now, I don't find this argument much more persuasive than simply guessing. I am sure that Mueller knows more than he is telling, but I have no idea what that knowledge might include. I'll celebrate when I see something. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Taq writes: As far as I am aware, POTUS can unilaterally declare something to be unclassified, Not without some very bad ramifications. If something is unclassified then leaking it to the press is not a crime. I don't think this is an out. Beyond that, not all classified information goes through the president. I don't see how the president can either declassify everything that Kushner will handle, or be in a position to tell folks that it is okay to tell Kushner is okay for top secret information that the president himself has not learned or that the president has no need to learn. Kushner's loss of security clearance will have ramifications. Many of them will be political. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Both Stone and Wikileaks deny having direct contact with each other, but The Atlantic's documentation reveals this to be a falsehood. While the smoking gun of direct coordination between Stone and Wikileaks of the email releases does not exist publicly, unless one believes in incredible consecutive coincidences (read the Atlantic article) coordination must have been a factor in the timing. The problem with trying to link things to Trump's campaign doing something stupid and needing a distraction is that Trump did or said stupid crap on something close to a weekly basis. The timelines you have put forward are intriguing, but I imagine that I could string together a narrative for just about any pattern of leaks, given that the leaks were designed with a fairly rational (for Russia) objective. Edited by NoNukes, : change links to leaks Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
In another thread, Percy points us to the CBS interview on Confederate Monuments. The interview he pointed to is up, available at the link he provided, which I will repeat here.
60 Minutes - Full Episodes Video - CBS News You can also find a 60 minutes interview with Betsy Devos at the same link. Ms. Devos is the current Secretary of Education. As is the case for several of Trump's cabinet picks, (Scott Pruitt being the best example), Devos appears to be diametrically opposed to the mission of the agency. You can find the entire interview at the above link. During the interview, Devos admits to never having visited a troubled school, and to having no knowledge of how her policies on school choice have turned out in Michigan, her home state.
quote: Well here are some facts about what Devos' policies have done for Michigan Schools Besty DeVos grilled over Michigan school struggles on '60 Minutes'
quote: Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith |
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Trump is an asshat of a boss...
quote: Trump couldn't be bothered to tell Tillerson that he was fired before tweeting about it. Who wouldn't know that such lack of decorum is not just unpresidential, but totally unacceptable? Tillerson is probably gone because he did not agree with Trump often enough and because those disagreements were very public. It could not have helped that Trump is a moron and that Tillerson said so. Tillerson was presiding over a period of destruction of the state department. I would welcome his leaving if there were any hope that that destruction was not mandated from above. However, Trump does not seem to value the state department. We still don't even have an ambassador to South Korea. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
John McTee is out over security clearance but just moved to a campaign position. McEntee's security clearance issue involves being investigated by Homeland Security for serious financial crimes. He was fired and thrown out on the 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue sidewalk.[1] Why is Trump having this guy join his campaign? [1] Some hyperbola intended. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Naturally Trump doubled down on his lie earlier today, tweeting: We do have a Trade Deficit with Canada, as we do with almost all countries (some of them massive). P.M. Justin Trudeau of Canada, a very good guy, doesn’t like saying that Canada has a Surplus vs. the U.S.(negotiating), but they do...they almost all do...and that’s how I know! Actually, this level of dishonesty is worse than lying. Trump admitted to his donors that he had no idea whether we have a deficit with Canada when he was meeting with Trudeau. Given that he planned ahead of time to meet with Trudeau and to discuss the matter, not knowing the answer was absolutely asinine. The facts are that we have little to no trade imbalance with Canada, and Trudeau is well aware of that fact. Who is Trump laughing at? He did not fool anyone. And then there is the quoted paragraph, where Trump comes up with some stupid reasoning in lieu of just checking the facts. Most countries have a surplus so therefore, Canada has one? Except that they don't. A flat-out lie would be far more acceptable than this. Trump tried to buffoon his way through the meeting with Trudeau and then elected to brag about his own idiocy. And to what end? What does he think he accomplished? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Is it possible that il Donald does not understand that it is not necessary to fire one apprentice every week? It's difficult to complain about the folks being fired. Trump's staffing has been an absolute disaster. McMaster was actually one of his better choices. But the overwhelming majority of the folks that are now gone should never have been anywhere near the White House. And there is still a boatload of horrendous picks. Ben Carson and Betsy Devos[1] come to mind along with that joke of a financial advisor, Larry Kudlow that was just hired. Kudlow's most famous economic prediction is his late 2007 insistence that everything was okay. When folks like this are hired, you almost have to give Trump some credit for kicking them out the door. At least you would if he had not picked them in the first place. [1] Not to ignore Sessions, Pruitt, or Perry but Carson and Devos each have a charm all their own. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
PaulK writes: John Dowd, leading Trump’s team dealing with the Mueller probe has resigned. Thanks Paul. Here is my favorite part of the article. About a week ago, Trump tweeted thusly:
quote: Then several days later Down is gone because Trump does not like his advice. "VERY happy" with his lawyers? ROFL. In other news, apparently other lawyers have turned down the opportunity to advise the president. Now why would any right thinking lawyer turn down the opportunity of a lifetime? http://thehill.com/...top-law-firms-turned-down-trump-report Really? Representing the president might damage your reputation? Who would have thought that? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
This is (again, in my view) the worst single thing Trump has done. Agree or disagree with his actions on healthcare, tax cuts, trade, environment, etc., he did nothing improper. I certainly believe that Trump has done improper things that are worse than this one. This particular action would appear to be blatantly illegal if Trump were involved, but then Trump is not overseeing the day to day activities of his hotels. Someone else is doing that. We can speculate on Trump's personal involvement here, but isn't that pretty much what we are doing for a lot of stuff? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
But the trust and the sons' management is just a smokescreen. Trump still owns the business, and I believe Trump has just as much control over The Trump Organization as he ever did. I agree. What I take issue with is the idea that this is somehow worse than the other stuff he has done. I had thought your argument was that you could attribute this directly to Trump in a way that made it blatantly illegal. But, first, the management by his sons is enough to remove the blatancy in my opinion.
How's that for chutzpah? They're aware that Panama has the same separation of executive and judiciary as the US, but they nonetheless request the Panamanian president's influence to resolve a judicial matter in their favor. I get you. But private companies do this kind of crap all of the time. In some cases, we applaud countries for flaunting the local law. But, yeah, in this case we are talking about some extremely important democratic principles when we talk about judicial independence. At least we lefties seem to think that is an important principle. Trump and his supporters may not think it is all that important even here in the US. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Here is our commander in chief disbursing his military planning via twitter. What could there possibly be to gain by taunting our adversaries over twitter? And what happened to the idea of not telling our plans before we take action?
quote: Apparently, this dumbass had not discussed any of this stuff with anybody before tweeting. Meanwhile, Russia takes advantage of Trump and looks like a bunch of statesmen.
quote: Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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