"Natural" (plant-based) Health Solutions

I know. You also believe in leprechauns so perhaps your methods should not be followed.

No, I don't believe in leprechauns, which you must know if you'd read what I wrote about all that honestly. I refer to Jacques Vallee's conclusions that UFOs are not ETs but some kind of spiritual phenomena, a conclusion he came to after studying accounts of UFOs and realizing they had a lot in common with folklore tales of such things as leprechauns and fairies and spooky occurrences down the centuries.He's not a Christian so he came up with some explanation for another dimension in which these beings can appear in various forms, but since I'm a Christian I accept the reality of demons, or fallen angels, and their ability to manifest in various forms for the purpose of dominating and deceiving human beings. Leprechauns are one possible way they may have manifested to people before the industrial age. After that they appeared as engines of various sorts and now as UFOs. If you consider yourself to be a Christian but don't believe demons and angels are real, it's you whose judgment is false.Besides, why would a belief in anything supernatural preclude making reasonable judgments about human character? Truly there is something wrong with your thinking.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

That's close enough. There are no leprechauns and there have never been leprechauns. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Jacques Vallee is a respected expert on UFO phenomena. I didn't make it up.Besides, dismissing my opinions because of what you think I believe in is a pretty nasty ad hominem. Who are you to judge another person that way? You must think your own opinions are some kind of unimpeachable standard. I've often thought you are one of the most cockeyed posters here.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I am not dismissing your opinion. I am dismissing your techniques for saying what is credible and what is not. You can form and hold any opinion you elect to hold. But I highly recommend that other folks use different methods to form their opinion. My opinions are subject to critique as are my methods of forming them. So are yours. You don't seem to have any problems ranting about folks not forming opinions based on watching the videos you suggest. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

My method is no different than anybody's method, and you are way out of line to smear me based on your own lack of belief in the Bible, especially since none of that has one thing to do with this subject. You are WAY out of line and should apologize..Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

quote:

---

My method is no different than anybody's method,

---

That is obviously not true. You complain that other people don’t use your methods and you complain that their methods are too difficult for you.

quote:

---

and you are way out of line to smear me based on your own lack of belief in the Bible,

---

I didn’t think that leprechauns were Biblical. Do you have a reference ?

My methods of judging character, such as Dr. Nicolson's are no different than anybody else's.It is demons that are in the Bible, that I said may be behind the phenomena discussed by Jacques Vallee, including leprechauns.

quote:

---

My methods of judging character, such as Dr. Nicolson's are no different than anybody else's.

---

That is an attempt to change the subject - and it isn’t even true.

quote:

---

It is demons that are in the Bible, that I said may be behind the phenomena discussed by Jacques Vallee, including leprechauns.

---

Vallee is hardly a reliable source, and it is a fact that NoNukes never mentioned the Bible or ridiculed your belief in it.

It happens to be exactly how the conversation went. He dismissed my judgment of Nicolson's character based on my supposed belief in leprechauns, which is false in more than one way.We are talking about how the conversation went and how it went is that I brought in Vallee to answer the charge that I believe in leprechauns. His credibility in your eyes is utterly irrelevant. I said I believe in demons who could manifest as leprechauns and he said that's about the same as believing in leprechauns, so I conclude he doesn't believe in demons, which means he doesn't believe in the Bible.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

quote:

---

It happens to be exactly how the conversation went. He dismissed my judgment of Nicolson's character based on my supposed belief in leprechauns, which is false in more than one way.

---

Not true. NoNukes objected to using character judgements in place of looking at the studies. Someone who routinely complains about ad hominem remarks ought to understand that looking at the studies is a more reliable method.

quote:

---

We are talking about how the conversation went and how I brought in Vallee to answer the charge that I believe in leprechauns is how it went

---

NoNukes admitted that you only said that you considered leprechauns as something that might plausibly exist. But you must understand that bringing in Vallee really didn’t help you.

quote:

---

His credibility in your eyes is utterly irrelevant.

---

That’s funny. Have you considered that your judgement of Vallee’s credibility might support NoNuke’s point ?

quote:

---

I said I believe in demons who could manifest as leprechauns and he said that's about the same as believing in leprechauns, so I conclude he doesn't believe in demons, which means he doesn't believe in the Bible.

---

That’s pretty convoluted. Maybe he doesn't believe that demons manifest as leprechauns.

As usual your conclusions are based simply on your fantasies and not reality in any way.I believe in the Bible.I do not believe in demons.Sorry Faith but the two facts posted above totally refute your conclusion as expected.The problem Faith is that you do not know how to think, how to analyze an issue, how to evaluate evidence or even what evidence is.

I went back through the posts, starting at Message 465, and NN was saying that he was objecting to my methods, that is, to my agreeing with Phat that there's nothing wrong with trusting in Nicolson rather than sifting through a lot of studies and that it makes sense for consumers to do that with a trustworthy spokesman like Nicolson. That's when he said that believing in leprechauns makes my judgment wrong. That was a classic ad hominem, and it's not true anyway since I don't believe in leprechauns.I reminded him of the context in which I made the leprechaun statement, which was about UFOs and Jacques Vallee's studies of UFO accounts that convinced him they don't behave like anything in the physical world but more like phenomena found in folklore, such as fairies and leprechauns and so on. I thought that a very interesting way of looking at it but thought since he isn't a Christian he overlooked demons as the cause.It's a reasonable view of it if you believe the Bible in which Jesus is shown casting out demons. Nothing direct is said about demons having the ability to change form except the story of Saul's seeking out the witch of Endor to bring up the recently dead prophet Samuel for him. She was shocked when the real Samuel did appear and talked with Saul, which can be interpreted as her being used to demonic impersonations of the people she asks to talk to. The Bible is clear that the dead do not come back to earth: There is "one life and then the judgment," so clearly God made an exception for Samuel to appear to Saul. It is also clear that Satan is the prince of this world, with his hosts of demons who are the "gods" of the many religions, now defeated by Christ's death on the cross but still to be active until the Second Coming. Ghosts and other apparitions are most likely also demonic impersonations, and wherever they preach a message contrary to the gospel of Christ you can be certain they are, as in the many new religions that appeared in recent times, such as A Course in Miracles, The Seth Books, Urantia and many others; also the "sages" that were being "channeled" with their supposed words of wisdom (really "doctrines of demons") back in the seventies and thereabouts. Demons are really quite active in this world even now but of course there's not much chance of convincing anyone here of that. I also think some mental illness is probably demon possession.So anyway I thought Vallee's observations of the UFO accounts very interesting though better explained by demons.NN then went on to dismiss my opinion based on my fuller explanation of what I meant about leprechauns that it should be reasonable to trust the honesty of a Dr. Nicolson. The same ad hominem of course on a slightly different basis, dismissing my judgment of the reasonableness of trusting a Nicolson because of something I said in a completely different context that he doesn't happen to agree with. That is scoundrely debating.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

quote:

---

I went back through the posts, starting at Message 465, and NN was saying that he was objecting to my methods, that is, to my agreeing with Phat that there's nothing wrong with trusting in Nicolson rather than sifting through a lot of studies and that it makes sense for consumers to do that with a trustworthy spokesman like Nicolson.

---

Given the fact that there are sound reasons for suspecting that this might be another useless supplement - I think it is certainly better to look at the evidence rather than rely on an advertisement.

quote:

---

That's when he said that believing in leprechauns makes my judgment wrong. That was a classic ad hominem, and it's not true anyway since I don't believe in leprechauns.

---

There are plenty of valid examples he could have chosen. I mean you believe that Lincoln was assassinated by the Jesuits because a narcissistic fantasist claimed it was all about him. You don’t think that if a narcissistic fantasist writes something that looks an awful lot like a narcissistic fantasy that it could well be a narcissistic fantasy?

quote:

---

It's a reasonable view of it if you believe the Bible in which Jesus is shown casting out demons. Nothing direct is said about demons having the ability to change form except the story of Saul's seeking out the witch of Endor to bring up the recently dead prophet Samuel for him. She was shocked when the real Samuel did appear and talked with Saul, which can be interpreted as her being used to demonic impersonations of the people she asks to talk to

---

In other words it would be quite reasonable to reject the idea of demons impersonating leprechauns. Thanks for admitting it.(People interested in the origin of the story may find this interesting.)Of course, the woman is not shocked that the real Samuel appeared. She was shocked that it was Saul asking her, since Saul had set himself against the mediums.

quote:

---

So anyway I thought Vallee's observations of the UFO accounts very interesting though better explained by demons.

---

Or better still explained without invoking the supernatural - at least once any distortions or inaccuracies Vallee might have introduced are removed.

I dont think that you have covered every argument.Note this article: How Critical Thinkers Lose Their Faith in God where the argument is made that Religious belief drops when analytical thinking rises. You have been taught to critically examine everything and to throw away concepts that clash with logic, reason, and reality. Some of us are more intuitive, however. Lest we stray too far off this threads main topic, let's carry this over into natural foods, supplements, and the arguments behind them. Faith was merely defending my intuitive conclusion that Dr.Garth Nicolson was not simply trying to sell a product but was, rather, an expert in the field who had himself conducted numerous studies regarding Lipid Replacement Therapy as a means of improving human energy levels for people suffering from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Cancer, and other chronic health problems.It is irrelevant whether Faith or I believe that Demons exist in this context, except to point out our similarity in trusting intuition over analytical research.
The Scientific American article explains the contrast between her and my thinking patterns vs many of you. Of course, a majority of Americans belong to your oft-touted "culture of ignorance" and I have learned how to think analytically from time to time, but both Faith and I are too old (and tired)to bother with such tedious work in most cases.It just frustrates us that so many of you refuse to believe or engage in intuition but would rather be forever analytical and methodical. At the end of the day, I will choose the diets that I engage in and the supplements...if any...that I use, and you can keep going to the so-called expert medical doctors who (you will someday agree with us) ... are not the last word on many forms of treatment. My Endocrinologist is a prime example.Though I did take your advice a few months ago and consulted a Psychiatrist regarding some issues which I had, it was not the suggested medications that brought my optimism and vibrancy back. It was a will to live and a sound diet. I'm sure that Faith feels much the same way. You guys really should stop picking on her in her own thread. The topic is Natural Plant Based Solutions.The method which Faith has chosen is intuition, not critical nor tedious analytical thinking.Regarding the NT Lipids: It is my opinion that Dr.Nicolsons videos are not an advertisement.What are your sound reasons PaulK? I would like to hear your analytical thinking on this.AddbyEdit: And jar, just because some of us use intuition is no reason to insult us as if analytical thinking is the only solution. Though I will agree with you that we can be wrong more often than can a strict analytical thinker, I also believe that you guys can follow the evidence right off a cliff due to your refusal to embrace intuition.Edited by Phat, : added comment