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Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
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Author | Topic: Senator Al Franken? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Minnemooseus writes: What I suspect would come out of an ethics committee hearing, is that some of those "women should be believed" would be exposed as "women whose truth should be doubted". Yeah, there's such an upside to coming forward with accusations of sexual harassment. I can't believe all women don't do it. Why can't everyone understand this and just ignore the obviously spurious charges against Franken and Trump and Moore and Weinstein and all the rest? Consider the general personal profile of the above mentioned: Weinstein - In a position of great power over the women accusers, in an industry long notorious for the "casting couch" concept. Trump - He admitted to and indeed bragged about bad behavior (eg - the "Miss Teen America" (IIRQ) situation). Also, one in a position of power there. And abundant public evidence (eg - debates with Hillary) that he's fundamentally an asshole. Moore - I believe there is something more than "she said" evidence in his case. And he does have a pretty solid image as being a neanderthal when it comes to progressive women's issues. I also bring up Anthony Weiner. As I recall, he had at least some pretty strong progressive positions/actions as a U.S. congressman, but it seems that there was/is just something deeply psychologically wrong with him. Franken - Yes, he did have some pretty reprehensible behavior in the Franken & Davis era, and even beyond. But I think that there is strong evidence that he is a "born again feminist", which isn't something you're going to accuse Weinstein, Trump, or Moore of being. I think he has been a powerful tool for progressive feminist issues, especially since he is a man. My impression is that a common situation for misbehavior is when the man is in a position of power over one or more women. There is a public statement from the women of Franken's staff, that says that he has done no misbehavior towards them. Concerning the "photos at the state fair situation". Franken was not in a position of power over those women. Indeed, as voters or potential voters, the women were in some small position of power over him. As I said before, it would be pretty stupid for a politician to deliberately do behavior that would alienate a voter. As I've also previously said, the state fair is a very public place having lots of people having lots of cameras, where Franken would be getting lots of attention. I would think that there would be an abundant supply of photos and video out there, of Franken's behavior at the fair. Has any photo/video come out, documenting bad Franken behavior? Not that I know of, and I'm confident it would come out if it existed.
I know that last must seem contradictory given my calls for Franken's resignation right from the first, but that was when I truly believed that he knew what he had done. Now I'm not so sure. The human mind is a strange and complex thing, and though deep in my heart I believe the women, Franken does seem to genuinely believe they are mistaken. Franken is a self-confessed "hugger". Maybe there was some excesses in his sincere physical affections towards others. And maybe some of those others fall into the category "easily offended".
Of course, since I believe the women I think he's lucky to have avoided the Ethics Committee, believing it would have come out very badly for him. I can't see how he could come out looking worse that he currently does.
Still, I've stated that I liked Franken, and I still like Franken, and were I a Minnesota resident I would vote for him for Senator again, but only after he'd risen before microphones and stated, "I did it, I regret it, and I apologize, both for my actions and for my later denials." Regardless, current Minnesota Lieutenant Governor Tina Smith has been appointed to fill the Franken vacancy, with her intending to run in the 2018 special election. I don't see any situation where Franken would enter a primary election agains Tina Smith. Minnesota side note -
quote: Source The Republicans hold a narrow margin in the Minnesota Senate. Moose Edited by Minnemooseus, : Posted message to soon, when it looking like browser problems were going to loose the message. Had a little to add. Edited by Minnemooseus, : Call it fixing a typo. Edited by Minnemooseus, : Add a ")".
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Franken is a self-confessed "hugger". Glad you put "hugger" in quotes. How convenient for him, as if that makes it okay. My intent was just to have "hugger" stand out, not to make it a euphemism for "groper". That said, I've come to realize that an undesired hug, regardless of how sincere and well meaning, could very well function as a grope. And indeed, Franken may have been a compulsive hugger. But having a series of women come out saying "he hugged me" sure doesn't have the impact of saying "he groped me". Still, in all, one should be very careful with ones huggings. I've come up with a title for Michael Moore's next documentary - "Huggergate - The Rise and Fall of Senator Al Franken". I've looked some, and have failed to find any video of Franken "working the crowd", such as at the state fair. Such must exist. It would be interesting to see the nature of "the hugger" in action. Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0
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Two from back in November:
Al Franken's Former Female Staffers Come to His Defense: 'He Treated Us With the Utmost Respect' 36 Women From Saturday Night Live Sign Letter of Support for Sen. Al Franken And from Jan. 7, 2018:
Major Democratic donor threatens to pull funding from senators who called for Franken’s resignation quote: More at source. Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Links for the record here:
Garrison Keillor exposed Which links to the lengthy: Investigation: For some who lived in it, Keillor's world wasn't funny | MPR News Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Rep. Elizabeth Esty pressured to resign following reports of sexual harassment in her office
quote: More at source. Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0
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2 messages from Percy:
Message 2608 - I'm Done with Michael Avenatti:
Percy writes: Today's New York Times reports that Michael Avenatti has been arrested on suspicion of domestic violence. I hope that lawyer gig continues to work out for him, because his political future is dead. I'm nonetheless saddened. The Democrats need someone who can dish it out as well as Trump can, and Avenatti has the additional advantage that the things he says are true. Avenatti would have been an unlikely 2020 candidate, but it would still have been nice to have his forceful voice articulating Democrat viewpoints. And the followup Message 2610 - Re: I'm Done with Michael Avenatti Percy writes: More on the Michael Avenatti arrest on suspicion of domestic violence in today's Washington Post: Michael Avenatti arrested on suspicion of domestic violence, calls allegations ‘completely bogus’ I, like probably everyone else, assumed the complainant was Avenatti's wife. They are separated and getting a divorce. But Avenatti's wife denies she filed any complaint, and says that Avenatti never exhibited a violent side during their relationship. Avenatti says he wasn't with his wife on the night in question. And Avenatti's first wife posted on social media that Avenatti was a "loving father" who has "never been abusive." And though Avenatti was arrested on "suspicion of domestic violence" (whatever that is), no charges were filed. I originally assumed that Avenatti was arrested because a woman had reported him to the police for abusing her, but no victim filed a complaint. So who filed the complaint? Who was the abused woman? Where is the name, where are the pictures of black eyes and bruises. Nobody's talking, nobody has any hard information, so who knows. That Avenatti was arrested for "suspicion of domestic violence" instead of just "domestic violence" and that no victim has been named or evidence of any sort described raises suspicions. Is it possible that someone reported Avenatti to the LAPD for abusing a woman, and for some reason the LAPD acted on it? That seems strange, but recall that police departments have called out entire swat teams based on fake 911 calls. Avenatti has already suffered from this arrest. Stormy Daniels says she will drop him as her lawyer if there's any truth to the abuse complaint, and the Vermont Democratic Party has cancelled his upcoming scheduled appearances. I've shifted from condemning Avenatti to waiting for more news. Smells of of "Metoo Swift Boating", aka an "Al Frankening". Not unlike the Keith Ellison situation (he still did get elected as Minnesota Attorney General, and he had my vote). More to follow (someday). Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Trump has special gifts of communication that can only be countered by someone with the same special gifts. Avenatti has these special gifts, and those who understand the threat Trump poses to our country's future should welcome his voice on their side, but only if he can clean up immaculately, completely and unambiguously the recent messes he has created. "... he has created"??? Might these be completely bogus charges created by someone else? Again -
Trump has special gifts of communication that can only be countered by someone with the same special gifts. Al Franken, the author of "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them"? Al was run out of Congress based on some pretty flimsy allegations. The big damage was the Leanne Tweeden photo, of which Al was guilty of posing for a staged (I think probably with Tweeden's active participation) photograph of a bad joke - "Al Franken groping the ungropable". This was followed up by a number of women saying "Oh my God, he touched my butt while we were having a photo taken at the Minnesota state fair". In the name of a political assassination, might well there not indeed be a number of women willing to lie or at least distort the truth to eliminate a good and powerful democrat Senate voice? And with all the people with all the cameras at the state fair, wouldn't you think that someone might of captured a photo or video of Al doing something bad? MooseProfessor, geology, Whatsamatta U Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith "Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien "I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
I believe the women. #MeToo And that is what puts Franken in such a difficult position - He too is a supporter of "believe the women". BUT - You don't think there is a real possibility that a number of women who might somehow be induced to lie or at least distort the truth? More via a reply to another older message coming. Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Reference material - Read if you wish:
Franken Wades Into A Comeback In The #MeToo Era - TPM – Talking Points Memo Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
For future reference - I haven't yet listened to it.
Al Franken has a Podcast | Greg Laden's Blog Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Franken ‘Absolutely’ Regrets Resigning From The Senate
quote: Again:
quote: "Harrasment" is their spelling. My spell check says the below is correct. I've thought that the one question I would have liked to ask Al is "Why didn't you submit yourself to the Senate Ethics Committee to let more details of the sexual harassment accusations come to light? More from the New Yorker link:
quote: Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
The gist is that the Tweeden charges have some serious holes, and that unbeknownst to us at the time Tweeden is an arch conservative who works for the most conservative TV outlet in Los Angeles. Right from the beginning it was known that Tweeden was/is a Trump supporter with ties to Fox news. And it was the bogus (bad joke at worst) Tweeden photo that set off the frenzy. Short of a Tweeden confession, we'll never know if she was an active participant in the posing of that photo, but such is my suspicion.
But the stories of the seven other women who came forward largely hold up, though not all made themselves available to the reporter. As I remember it, the bulk of these were "butt touching" incidents during photograph takings at the Minnesota state fair. I, for more reasons that one, wished these had been investigated/discussed more - On the lighter side I see the phrase "Buttgate" as the title of the scandal. But, as I've said before, Franken probably posed for hundreds of these photos. In the situations of large crowds of people, lots of cameras, and Franken being a center of attention, might someone have photo-captured one of these "butt touches" The only Franken with a woman photo I've seen (available upthread somewhere), for better or worse, showed no sign of where Franken's hands were. The (fairly low resolution) photo I saw did show signs of the photoshop removal of Franken's hand from the woman's shoulder. Or maybe it was a photoshop to remove a hand that was never there in the first place, just to confuse things more. Anyway, that woman was also on record as being a Trump supporter. How many Trump supporter women might there be, willing to take part in a smear of a substantial opponent of the Trump agenda? Yes, Franken has admitted to being a hugger (and I now don't phrase that as what you once interpreted as a (wink wink) "hugger"). So indeed, Franken may well have been guilty of being a little too physically affectionate. But doing such in a place with lots of people and lots of cameras? That seems to be a pretty poor way to hide your evilness. I guess any future Franken with a woman photos need to have Al waving his hands up in the air.
The bottom line seems to be that Franken should have had a chance to face a hearing before the Ethics Committee so that the charges could have been properly investigated. I don't know if his once stating that he wanted an Ethics Committee hearing went so far as he or anyone else formally requesting such. It seemed that no one wanted to let good procedure stand in the way of running a pervert out of the Senate.
I hope he somehow finds his way back into the Senate. I checked it out a while back, and he would have been (and Tina Smith is) up for reelection in the fall of 2020. Pending what new information comes out in the meantime, I'd go with Franken in a Franken/Smith primary confrontation. It's not looking promising that the Amy Klobuchar Senate seat is going to be coming open in 2020/2021. Maybe the whole mess was to eliminate the possibility of a Franken vs Trump Presidential battle in 2020??? I've said it before and I'll say it again, who has better credentials with confronting "big fat idiots"? What would happen if Trump would have mouthed off like he did to Hillary, but it had been Franken as his opponent? Isn't there some saying about the dangers of heckling a professional comedian? Not that Franken was much if at all a comedian as a Senator. MooseProfessor, geology, Whatsamatta U Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith "Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien "Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." - John Kenneth Galbraith It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman (as stolen from Chiroptera's signature) "I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Franken Anounces Run for Senate | Greg Laden's Blog
quote:quote: A quote of a quote. Gave me quite a rush when I saw the headline. Not that I really have anything against Senator Tina Smith, but I think the other Franken should primary her this coming election. MooseProfessor, geology, Whatsamatta U Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith "Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien "Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." - John Kenneth Galbraith It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman (as stolen from Chiroptera's signature) "I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose |
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0
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How Franken Resignation Affected Gillibrand - TPM – Talking Points Memo
quote: A couple of links in that paragraph at the source.
quote: Franken screwed up her political career by resigning??? Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0
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Percy writes: I watched the Friday Democratic debate and the Sunday morning analysis programs and had these impressions:
Source from elsewhere of the above Was the (more or less) smear of Franken important to the Republicans, to get him out of the picture? Not only was he a powerful voice of reason in the Senate, but might not he also have been in the Presidential picture? I deem Franken to be a documented expert with dealing with liars and big fat idiots. Going toe-to-toe verbally with Trump? It might just be my dream confrontation. Moose Edited by Minnemooseus, : Didn't close the list code.
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