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Author Topic:   Religious Special Pleading
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 268 of 357 (830978)
04-09-2018 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by Modulous
04-09-2018 5:59 PM


There certainly is a reason orthodox Judaism can't adopt that principle, it's a compromise with the world which is enmity with God. The Torah is the standard and it says God was angry with Moses for his failure to have his sons circumcised.
Satan often acts as God's agent in judgment, and in any case he can't act without God's permission.
When God is your authority and His law is contradicted by human law, the offense is on a very different level from personal offense. And this is all very similar, you know, to the dilemma Christians have been put in by the legal adoption of gay marriage. Genuine devotion to the biblical God requires us to disobey the conflicting law, and I'm figuring the same is true for orthodox Jews in the same position with respect to the biblical requirement of infant circumcision. These are things you can't dictate as an unbeliever. Many Jews may capitulate to a secular law against circumcision, as do many Christians to the gay marriage law, but strict believers will not do that. Strict believers do not see their religion as evolving, the more the society directly contradicts God's word the more we are put in a difficult position because we won't give in to the changes. It's God's word, after all, which is not humanly alterable. Sure you'll see a rise in apologetics in favor of any compromise that gains popularity, but it's at heart a giving in to alien influences at enmity with God, a betrayal. Perhaps it's a way of separating the sheep from the goats.
Yes many things that had a basis in the Bible have been changed by the societies we live in. The death penalty is one, and I think we're under judgment for that among other ways we've compromised God's word. "God is not mocked." There are consequences to rejecting His instruction, which of course unbelievers don't register. If an earthquake or a hurricane or a drought or an increase in social violence or the ingress of hostile foreigners or an economic crash (all on the Biblical list of punishments for disobedience to God) makes life miserable for a populaton they don't notice the connection.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Modulous, posted 04-09-2018 5:59 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 269 of 357 (830979)
04-09-2018 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by Modulous
04-09-2018 5:59 PM


Somehow overlooked this:
And finally - Abrahamic religions have a 'get out religious dilemma free' card in the guise of 'love one's neighbour as oneself' which can be used to take precedence over even things God commanded.
No, it absolutely cannot. It's a false unbiblical idea of love that would have us disobey God. It's sad that it has been so terribly misused.
Add to that the commandment to cause no living creature discomfort and there's plenty of scope to question the procedure within the religion.
I'm not sure what you are referring to here, but the same principle applies. If obedience to the righteous law causes someone discomfort that's like applying the death penalty to a murderer. Sometimes you have to inflict suffering because it's the righteous thing to do. Obviously loving your neighbor and sparing him discomfort means only in the context of righteous acts. I'm not to make a criminal comfortable by overlooking the crime unless it's a very petty crime and/or I'm willing to pay for it myself.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Modulous, posted 04-09-2018 5:59 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by Modulous, posted 04-09-2018 9:17 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 271 of 357 (830991)
04-09-2018 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by Modulous
04-09-2018 9:17 PM


OK, so you believe it is pharisaical to punish criminals. There's nothing to say to someone who would take such a stance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Modulous, posted 04-09-2018 9:17 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Modulous, posted 04-09-2018 9:32 PM Faith has not replied

  
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