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Author | Topic: Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
edge Member (Idle past 1733 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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I guess you've never watched a wave recede, how the wet slick it made immediately looks like it's drying out.
But it isn't drying out, is it? Nor is it lithifying. How long do prints last on modern beaches? After days and days of 'drying' would they survive the rain, wind, and of course the next wave?
abe: Oh and I don't wonder at ALL why you call my posts silly. You are preprogrammed to say such things about anything a creationist says.
Or it could just be bona fide, fruitcake silly.
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edge Member (Idle past 1733 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
What you are calling silly is the Christian faith as it has been believed and taught for two millennia.
So, sedimentology is taught in Christianity? Sorry, Faith, but it is only your own peculiar statements that we find as silly.
And it's interesting that the part you choose to denigrate the most, the Flood, is the part that the apostle Peter identified as THE focus of the scoffing of unbelievers that proves their willing ignorance of the things of God.
So Peter knew that the idea of a global flood was silly?
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edge Member (Idle past 1733 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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You'll just have to help my pitiful thinking out. You see, I'm struggling to recognise this gentle rising of water you describe here with the storms, torrential downpours, and explosive 'fountains of the deep' that took only 40 days to cover the whole earth to a depth higher than the mountains. Then receded with such power and erosion that it cut through thousands of meters of rock, whilst leaving intact fragile muddy footprints (and dinosaur poop).
The cognitive dissonance must be immense. I guess we can't say that 'it is what it is' anymore. It is what 'Faith wants it to be'. In one case, we have the Grand Canyon rocks easily eroded away by thousands of feet (and then become lithified later). And in a second case we have freshly deposited sands that harden enough in one hour to withstand the constant attack of sea waves. And then, those sands can also survive the onrush of a flood surge that will carry tons of sand, silt and gravel and yet still contain fragile footprints. Hey, it makes sense to me. If Faith's scenario is different from this, she needs describe the situation better. But I don't see the alternatives. Edited by edge, : No reason given.
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edge Member (Idle past 1733 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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CAN occur but extreeeeeeeemely rarely and on a teeeeeeeny scale in comparison with the reality.
Nonsense, we have provided you with examples of modern fossilization processes. You can believe what you want, but expect us to dissent.
Thousands and thousands of dinosaur bodies all tumbling down streams around the world and ending up in a heap of jumbled pieces? Oh that is NOT going to happen under normal circumstances.
Actually, mass die-offs are pretty common.
Mass animal deaths on the rise worldwide - CBS News Besides, how do you know that they are all moving at the same time? And why are they not 'jumbled up' with all species of dinosaurs?
It's really remarkable how ready you all are to accept the impossible and dismiss the realistic based only on your belief in evolution. Such faithfulness is certainly touching, though scientifically untenable.
So, you are saying that Faith's incredulity indicates that something is impossible? Do you know how many times that has been shown to be faulty reasoning throughout history?
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edge Member (Idle past 1733 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
Water is needed to make the chemical transformation for fossilization.
Please explain these chemical reactions. And it happens even now.
Mass animal deaths on the rise worldwide - CBS News And it is found throughout the fossil record. So why is it not normal?
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edge Member (Idle past 1733 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
Most of the creatures found as fossils in the strata are found in groups. birds of a feather flock together, and all the more under threatening conditions. I don't get your problem.
Sure. Many species are colonial. Others die and accumulated under local conditions of currents or chemical conditions. There are probably scores of reasons for this.
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edge Member (Idle past 1733 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
????? Why not? ?????
That was the question to you. Why do we find only the very specific dinosaur communities related to the late Cretaceous in the Lance Formation? If this was a global event that killed all dinosaurs at once and the flood was collecting all of the fossils, why do we not see stegosaurs in with the select late Cretaceous fossils? That's hardly 'jumbled up' dinosaur fossil beds. They seem to be very well sorted according to species.
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edge Member (Idle past 1733 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
If animals died and got buried and fossilized individually, which is what the conventional theory seems to suggest has been the norm over the supposed billions of years, ...
Nonsense. We've known about various mass kills and strandings and bone beds for centuries.
why are they found in sedimentary layers at all?
Because sediments accumulate very specific places. Without them, there would be no fossils. And sediments today are still accumulating fossils. Why do you ask this question? Edited by edge, : No reason given.
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edge Member (Idle past 1733 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
Did they all hang out together in life? Or don't species tend to hang out among themselves? I don't see the problem.
So, you are saying that only one community was affected at any one time? Of all the Lance Formation (which is found in Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota, Saskatchewan and Alberta) and its equivalents, there was only one dinosaur community? Sure, no problem at all!
The bigger question to my mind is why thousands of even one species would end up in a single grave with all their parts jumbled together. In any normal circumstances this wouldn't happen. It's obviously a mass death. While sure that COULD happen on a rare occasion, you said it happened the same way all over the world, and there simply is no better explanation for such occurrences than a worldwide death-dealing event.
Actually, if you look at the data, there are hundreds of mass kills every year across the planet. Various populations of bats, birds, fish, pigs, bees, you name it. But they are all from the modern animal communities. Edited by edge, : No reason given.
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edge Member (Idle past 1733 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
Oh, normal individual death is NOT the norm then?
Did I ever say that they were 'the norm'? They are common in the fossil record and in modern times as well.
Of course you've known about the mass kills, but the question then becomes if THEY are the norm, and they are found all over the world, why on earth didn't the obvious explanation of a worldwide mass kill overcome the silly time-defined theory?
Because the occurred at different times. Including the present.
... (rambling complaint snipped)...
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edge Member (Idle past 1733 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
Why not?
You were asked first. By more than one person. But since you are not courteous enough to respond, I will try. It is because the Lance Formation occurred at a specific time during dinosaur evolution.
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edge Member (Idle past 1733 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
That's my impression. Edge didn't disagree with it.
I think it would be a mistake to say that all or even most fossils are found in 'groups'. My comment was only that it is not unusual. That is to say that a flood is not necessary to create such collections of fossils.
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edge Member (Idle past 1733 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
Since you were just talking about fossilization I thought you were still referring to that, but your link is to mass animal deaths.
Well, mass fossilization could occur with mass deaths. Your logic eludes me.
I suspect mass deaths are occurring more and more as a playing out of the curse of the Fall as we are nearing the End, meaning they aren't normal; and of course if what is in the fossil record is THE mass death of all air-breathing creatures that lived on the land before the Flood, plus a whole lot of marine creatures as well, that wasn't normal either.
So, it isn't the flood. I'm glad we cleared that up. Edited by edge, : No reason given.
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edge Member (Idle past 1733 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
Birds of a feather... That is, the other dinosaurs had their own turf.
So, the only dinosaurs of a feather in the entire area of the Lance Formation were of just one set? That would include Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota, Saskatchewan and Alberta. No stegosaurs? No apatosaurs? No allosaurs? Sorry, not buying. Edited by edge, : No reason given.
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edge Member (Idle past 1733 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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Stop assuming the fossil record is telling you anything about the lives of the fossilized animals in some distant past, about extinctions or anything else in the distant past. Just see that some fossils occur in one place and not another. That’s the basic reality. Stop talking about it as if the interpretation were fact. It isn’t.
I think I'll do that as soon as we get into the 18th century.
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