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Author Topic:   Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win.
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1907 of 2887 (831310)
04-14-2018 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1904 by edge
04-14-2018 11:12 PM


Re: The Imaginary Fossil Order is a false interpretation
I see. And do the Saharan erg, the Brazilian shield, and the Florida/Bahamian Banks lie over respective stacks of similarly extensive flat straight sedimentary layers identifiable with earlier Time Periods as all the layers/Systems of the currently identifiable Geological column do, and if not, why should anyone consider them to have anything to do with the Geological Column and its corresponding Geological Timescale at all, rather than just sand and swampy stuff that could turn to coal and whatever calcareous stuff could possibly turn into limestone, but who knows if any of it really will? If you're going to assert that any of this is related to the Geological Column shouldn't there be more similarity with the Geological Column, in form and location?
Why should they overly anything in particular?
Cuz your theory says that for hundreds of millions of years they overlay layer upon layer of sediments miles deep, that's why.
Please provide your definition of stratum where it must overlie other strata.
Definition? Isn't hundreds of millions of years of accumulated sedimentary layers/rock Systems etc., enough to lead one to expect the pattern to continue, and if it doesn't that it isn't part of the same phenomenon? How can one even have a discussion about such an irrational way of dealing with the physical world? How can you make yourself accept your own stuff?
Why would they not become part of the stratigraphic column if they were buried under future sediments?
Why? All the layers we identify with the Geo Timescale are built on top of earlier layers; so if you claim any new deposition is part of the same geological column you need to explain how it isn't doing the same thing. How can you consider anything part of that stratigraphic column if it's starting all over somewhere else? I really can't fathom your ability to believe such a thing. I guess you think that makes sense, but it certainly doesn't. Hundreds of millions of years of layers upon layers and then all of a sudden no more building on those layers but starting all over from scratch? And you think that makes sense? Wow.
So for hundreds of millions of years we got one rock System on top of another spanning most of North America, and now we're getting no more and we're supposed to believe that the Geological Column just abasndoned North America after all that time?
This is gibberish.
Gibberish is often how the tenets of one paradigm look from the point of view of another paradigm.
First of all, we are getting deposition right now, and who believes that the the geological columh could just 'abandon' anything?
Pardon my penchant for literary flourish.
You are getting all kinds of deposition all over the place no doubt but it is nothing at all like the layers in the geological column, which is recognizsable all over the North American continent to a depth of miles, not in location, not in geographicsl extent, and most likely not in flatness and straightness either. The point is after hundreds of millions of years how can you justify the idea of the reestablishment of the geological column in a new location? It built in the same geographical area for hundreds of millions of years and suddenly stopped altogether and is now starting up somewhere else? No way does that make any sense.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1908 of 2887 (831311)
04-15-2018 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1906 by edge
04-14-2018 11:15 PM


Re: The Imaginary Fossil Order is a false interpretation
Sigh.
I have to come back to this later.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1911 of 2887 (831317)
04-15-2018 5:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1895 by edge
04-14-2018 10:27 PM


Re: The Imaginary Fossil Order is a false interpretation
I can see this version better though it's still hard to read the print.
What does the upper horizontal line represent?
Edited by Admin, : Narrow image width. It's more convenient when the image width allows two browser pages to be placed side by side.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1914 of 2887 (831339)
04-15-2018 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1913 by Percy
04-15-2018 4:02 PM


Re: The Imaginary Fossil Order is a false interpretation
You're not so much guessing as making things up. No evidence points to a global flood.
Strata and fossils, strata and fossils, strata and fossils.
Strata miles deep with no erosion between layers, no deformation by tectonism, no magma that begins or ends except at the very bottom and the very top.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1921 of 2887 (831347)
04-15-2018 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1912 by edge
04-15-2018 9:47 AM


Re: The Imaginary Fossil Order is a false interpretation
What does the upper horizontal line represent?
Sea level (at the time). The Ancestral Rockies are rising to the right of the diagram.
And at this time (now), what does it represent?

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1923 of 2887 (831349)
04-15-2018 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1895 by edge
04-14-2018 10:27 PM


Re: The Imaginary Fossil Order is a false interpretation
The thing is, there isn't anything in that diagram to suggest when it occurred, and since I've seen so much evidence that serious disturbances did not happen until the entire geological column was laid down from Cambrian to Holocene, I have no doubt that what is shown in that diagram also happened after it was all in place.
There are plenty of other similar situations where there is a salt filled basin or sunken area where it is clear from the way the strata are parallel to each other that they were already there before the basin formed, so on a diagram like the one you've shown, where there aren't any clear clues to timing, that's the most likely interpretation there too.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1924 of 2887 (831350)
04-16-2018 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1922 by edge
04-15-2018 11:50 PM


Re: The Imaginary Fossil Order is a false interpretation
I don't suppose you could translate that into simple English?

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1926 of 2887 (831352)
04-16-2018 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1925 by PaulK
04-16-2018 12:55 AM


Re: The Imaginary Fossil Order is a false interpretation
I have.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1929 of 2887 (831360)
04-16-2018 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1927 by PaulK
04-16-2018 1:10 AM


Column all together before disturbance: salt basin evidence
There have been many different angles of evidence that the completed geologic column was laid down before being disturbed as a stack, rather than individual layers being disturbed. One of the lines of evidence I've given in the past is cross sections of areas where there are salt basins, in which you can see a whole block of strata, sometimes identified as the usual timescale time periods, all sagging as a unit beneath the salt basin, or sometimes with salt domes shown rising up through the layers from beneath the whole stack, some already at the top though supposedly they must have had millions of years to rise. They rise at a rate that should take a lot less time than millions of years but whatever.
I've found a few such discussions on Search but Search is being difficult these days. You get a list of posts on a subject and when you check one out and try to go back to the list you get some kind of error message and have to start the search all over. I remember posting diagrams on this subject many times in the past but I can't find the ones I remember. Michigan basin is one area, Gulf coast area is another. Completed layers all sunken like hammocks in those cases. They prove what I say they prove but getting that across is impossible because of the ingrained conventional paradigm that just can't see the true implications of the evidence because of its pre-emption within the inadequate paradigm.
And now I see we're getting the ad hominem type of response. I talk about evidence, you come back at me personally. Oh well. [NO, I DON'T MEAN YOU PERSONALLY IN THIS CASE. ALTHOUGH IT IS CERTAINLY OFTEN TRUE OF YOU. I OFTEN REFER TO ALL MY OPPONENTS AS AN UNDIFFERENTIATED GROUP, SORRY.]
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1931 of 2887 (831364)
04-16-2018 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1930 by PaulK
04-16-2018 1:19 PM


Re: The Imaginary Fossil Order is a false interpretation
Yes, that's the kind of dismissive irrelevant "other evidence" I usually get. If there are only two separate areas where it can be shown that the strata were all in place before any disturbance occurred, whether tectonic, erosive, volcanic or salt-caused deformation as a unit, that is consistent with the Flood model which would of course expect all the strata everywhere to be laid down one after another in rapid succession, and if salt domes rise up through the whole stack and have already reached the top, and we know that if enough has accumulated they can rise almost at a visible rate of movement, that it would have taken nowhere near millions of years. More like, oh, say, something like four thousand or less? Yes, this is all explained differently via the other paradigm, the other system of interpretation.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1933 of 2887 (831366)
04-16-2018 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1932 by PaulK
04-16-2018 1:43 PM


Re: The Imaginary Fossil Order is a false interpretation
Produce one of those aupposedly many areas of contrary evidence please. This is just the usual case of competing explanatory paradigms and not of different facts so that's what I would aim to show with whatever different evidence you think you have.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1934 of 2887 (831367)
04-16-2018 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1932 by PaulK
04-16-2018 1:43 PM


Re: The Imaginary Fossil Order is a false interpretation
,,,even if you could find a young salt dome it wouldn’t be evidence that the Earth is young. That really should be obvious.
Since the prevailing paradigm says the geo column layers start hundreds of millions of years ago, if a salt dome can be shown to have risen from beneath the earliest rock layer, the Cambrian, to the top of the stack or Holocene, or even where there are layers missing it could be shown to have risen through a few million years' worth of layers/time periods, that would be a strong indication that the timescale explanation is out of whack, since the domes once formed rise fast enough to cause earthquakes and create other problems.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1936 of 2887 (831370)
04-16-2018 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1935 by PaulK
04-16-2018 1:59 PM


Re: The Imaginary Fossil Order is a false interpretation
As you know, I've argued for a different explanation of angular unconformities, and you'd need to explain the rest of your list for me to get your point. I have no idea what you mean to be suggesting with the last example. And I've said a million times that I see this as a matter of both sides having the same facts or evidence but different ways of explaining it.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1938 of 2887 (831375)
04-16-2018 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1937 by PaulK
04-16-2018 2:24 PM


Re: The Imaginary Fossil Order is a false interpretation
Creationists only very recently have been trying to accumulate evidence and explanations to counter the current paradigm which has at least a couple hundred years head start on us. After you've elaborated your paradigm for that many years of course it looks like all the evidence is on your side because you've got explanations for every little thing, but even the small amount YECs have put together in such a short time STRONGLY indicates that the whole conventional paradigm is a house of cards. But for people immersed in that paradigm the interlocking habits of explanation are hard to break, not to mention that motivationally nobody wants to break them, for the reasons mentioned even on this thread: it would supposedly mean the collapse of all "science."
Your buried forest could very well be explained by the Spirit Lake example of trees that have sunk into a lake in an upright position after the forest was destroyed by a volcano, so that they appear to hve been growing there but actually weren't.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1939 of 2887 (831376)
04-16-2018 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1937 by PaulK
04-16-2018 2:24 PM


Re: The Imaginary Fossil Order is a false interpretation
You don’t have time for landscapes to form, either. That’s why you insist that they don’t exist.
I wish you'd all stop making up motivations for me instead of dealing with what I've actually said.

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