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Author Topic:   Sin
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 148 of 185 (774708)
12-21-2015 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by Phat
12-21-2015 3:37 AM


Re: On Topic Joke
Phat writes:
Being "needy" for Gods grace only makes sense once one is crushed.
Who's doing the crushing?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Phat, posted 12-21-2015 3:37 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Phat, posted 12-23-2015 1:02 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 150 of 185 (774834)
12-23-2015 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Phat
12-23-2015 1:02 PM


Re: On Topic Joke
Phat writes:
Sometimes I feel as if I am being thwarted and ultimately crushed in life, but upon further examination find that I am the instigator trying to get what I want and do things my way.
So you have an omnipotent God who doesn't actually do anything. How is that different form no God at all?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Phat, posted 12-23-2015 1:02 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Phat, posted 12-23-2015 3:28 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 152 of 185 (774843)
12-23-2015 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Phat
12-23-2015 3:28 PM


Re: Either Fall on the rock or the Rock shall fall on you
Phat writes:
I never said that God doesnt do anything...where do you get this from?
You're taking the blame for everything bad that happens, aren't you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Phat, posted 12-23-2015 3:28 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 12-23-2015 4:09 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 157 of 185 (831918)
04-27-2018 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Phat
12-23-2015 4:09 PM


Re: Either Fall on the rock or the Rock shall fall on you
Phat writes:
If Jesus does in fact absolve us of our sins, it does not mean that we are passive observers.
Doesn't it? Where's the "communion" if we make our own decisions and Jesus/God decides to forgive us? Seems like two separate processes to me.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 12-23-2015 4:09 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Phat, posted 04-27-2018 12:52 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 159 of 185 (831925)
04-27-2018 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Phat
04-27-2018 12:52 PM


Re: Is It On God or On Us?
Phat writes:
You seem to have concluded that there is no evidence that a God exists....
As I keep telling you, I see no evidence of a "communion". If God was important, why wouldn't there be some improvement in the people who think He's important?
Phat writes:
... insisting that the book (should)be taken seriously in order to indict the God within its pages.
Characters like Jesus don't even exist outside its pages. Why cherry-pick what you like and ignore what you don't?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Phat, posted 04-27-2018 12:52 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Phat, posted 04-27-2018 1:39 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 165 of 185 (831986)
04-28-2018 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Phat
04-27-2018 1:39 PM


Re: Is It On God or On Us?
Phat writes:
because the whole point (or idea) of a book is human interpretation and consensus of the topic within.
What consensus? That's the problem with making it up to suit yourself. No two people have the same interpretation.
Phat writes:
Go ahead...give Him your best shot. Invent/describe a God Who created all seen and unseen, chooses to basically leave us alone and let us "grow up", and is not directly responsible for evil.
How is that possible? Isn't evil part of "all seen and unseen"?
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
Characters like Jesus don't even exist outside its pages.
Perhaps not in your mind.
Not in reality.
Phat writes:
Remember, evidence cannot count in these cases since the character that we are seeking is for all practical purposes invisible.
Evidence always counts.
But you're missing the point. You believe in Jesus but the only place Jesus exists is in the Book. You choose to believe that part of the Book, but you throw away the parts you don't like. On what basis do you believe in the Jesus of the Bible but not the God of the Bible?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Phat, posted 04-27-2018 1:39 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Phat, posted 04-28-2018 4:29 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 176 of 185 (832170)
04-30-2018 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by Phat
04-28-2018 4:29 PM


Re: Is It On God or On Us?
Phat writes:
Perhaps we need to clarify just what evil is and is not. As an example, for all practical purposes would we consider a Tsunami "evil"? How about an earthquake? A poison spider? a drunk driver?
Evil is basically just anything that has bad consequences. Of course bad consequences are in the eye of the beholder. The poison spider is glad that you died and not him.
Phat writes:
If it were possible for God to put us (or allow us to originate) on a perfect planet with no threats to our safety or health, could there be a reason that He chose not to do this?
Consider how we would have developed.
That's an odd notion coming from somebody who supposedly believes in Heaven. Isn't Heaven supposed to be that perfect world with no bad consequences? Don't we all want that? Why are you so concerned about "development" in this life when you want it to stop in the next?
Phat writes:
I don't think you have really thought through how humans may behave in a world truly free from evil (and rebellion) since we ourselves would not have a need for kicking things and tipping over beehives.
The fundamentalist belief seems to be that we would run wild, raping and killing each other. They say so explicitly.
I would suggest that empathy has nothing to do with belief in God.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Phat, posted 04-28-2018 4:29 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 177 of 185 (832171)
04-30-2018 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by Phat
04-29-2018 11:00 AM


Re: Is It On God or On Us?
Phat writes:
But all you are doing is turning Christianity into a humanist philosophy.
The good religions start as humanist philosophy.
The bad ones make excuses for why God's needs are more important than ours.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Phat, posted 04-29-2018 11:00 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Phat, posted 04-30-2018 12:08 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 179 of 185 (832176)
04-30-2018 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Phat
04-30-2018 12:08 PM


Re: Is It On God or On Us?
Phat writes:
I suppose you would argue that our needs are the primary concern.
Here we go again. What does God need? And why do we need a needy God?
Phat writes:
My only argument concerning Christianity as a humanist philosophy is that God is not even needed as part of it all.
quote:
"A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle,"
-- Irina Dunn
Do we really need a god? Or do we just wish there was a god to fulfil our needs?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Phat, posted 04-30-2018 12:08 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Phat, posted 04-30-2018 12:24 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 181 of 185 (832178)
04-30-2018 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Phat
04-30-2018 12:24 PM


Re: Is It On God or On Us?
Phat writes:
Who the heck is gonna bail me out when I fail???
Faith believes we already fell. God set our ancestors up to fall and he blames every subsequent generation for what He did.
Paht writes:
I believe that we need God.
For what?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Phat, posted 04-30-2018 12:24 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Phat, posted 06-16-2018 2:17 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 184 of 185 (835040)
06-16-2018 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Phat
06-16-2018 2:17 PM


Re: Is It On God or On Us?
Phat writes:
...there are those who have gone before us to guide us.
The Sherpas are human. Those who went before us were human. You could possibly use that line of thought to argue that the first human needed God - but why do we need God?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Phat, posted 06-16-2018 2:17 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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