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Member (Idle past 2720 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Sin | |||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Who's doing the crushing?
Being "needy" for Gods grace only makes sense once one is crushed.
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So you have an omnipotent God who doesn't actually do anything. How is that different form no God at all?
Sometimes I feel as if I am being thwarted and ultimately crushed in life, but upon further examination find that I am the instigator trying to get what I want and do things my way.
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You're taking the blame for everything bad that happens, aren't you?
I never said that God doesnt do anything...where do you get this from?
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Doesn't it? Where's the "communion" if we make our own decisions and Jesus/God decides to forgive us? Seems like two separate processes to me. If Jesus does in fact absolve us of our sins, it does not mean that we are passive observers.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
As I keep telling you, I see no evidence of a "communion". If God was important, why wouldn't there be some improvement in the people who think He's important?
You seem to have concluded that there is no evidence that a God exists.... Phat writes:
Characters like Jesus don't even exist outside its pages. Why cherry-pick what you like and ignore what you don't? ... insisting that the book (should)be taken seriously in order to indict the God within its pages.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What consensus? That's the problem with making it up to suit yourself. No two people have the same interpretation.
because the whole point (or idea) of a book is human interpretation and consensus of the topic within. Phat writes:
How is that possible? Isn't evil part of "all seen and unseen"?
Go ahead...give Him your best shot. Invent/describe a God Who created all seen and unseen, chooses to basically leave us alone and let us "grow up", and is not directly responsible for evil. Phat writes:
Not in reality.
ringo writes:
Perhaps not in your mind. Characters like Jesus don't even exist outside its pages. Phat writes:
Evidence always counts. Remember, evidence cannot count in these cases since the character that we are seeking is for all practical purposes invisible. But you're missing the point. You believe in Jesus but the only place Jesus exists is in the Book. You choose to believe that part of the Book, but you throw away the parts you don't like. On what basis do you believe in the Jesus of the Bible but not the God of the Bible?An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Evil is basically just anything that has bad consequences. Of course bad consequences are in the eye of the beholder. The poison spider is glad that you died and not him.
Perhaps we need to clarify just what evil is and is not. As an example, for all practical purposes would we consider a Tsunami "evil"? How about an earthquake? A poison spider? a drunk driver? Phat writes:
That's an odd notion coming from somebody who supposedly believes in Heaven. Isn't Heaven supposed to be that perfect world with no bad consequences? Don't we all want that? Why are you so concerned about "development" in this life when you want it to stop in the next?
If it were possible for God to put us (or allow us to originate) on a perfect planet with no threats to our safety or health, could there be a reason that He chose not to do this? Consider how we would have developed. Phat writes:
The fundamentalist belief seems to be that we would run wild, raping and killing each other. They say so explicitly. I don't think you have really thought through how humans may behave in a world truly free from evil (and rebellion) since we ourselves would not have a need for kicking things and tipping over beehives. I would suggest that empathy has nothing to do with belief in God.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The good religions start as humanist philosophy. But all you are doing is turning Christianity into a humanist philosophy. The bad ones make excuses for why God's needs are more important than ours.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Here we go again. What does God need? And why do we need a needy God?
I suppose you would argue that our needs are the primary concern. Phat writes:
My only argument concerning Christianity as a humanist philosophy is that God is not even needed as part of it all.quote:Do we really need a god? Or do we just wish there was a god to fulfil our needs? An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Faith believes we already fell. God set our ancestors up to fall and he blames every subsequent generation for what He did.
Who the heck is gonna bail me out when I fail??? Paht writes:
For what? I believe that we need God.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The Sherpas are human. Those who went before us were human. You could possibly use that line of thought to argue that the first human needed God - but why do we need God? ...there are those who have gone before us to guide us.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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