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Author Topic:   Religion or Science - How do they compare?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 91 of 882 (832462)
05-04-2018 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by jar
05-04-2018 8:23 AM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
You demonstrate your own depth of ignorance of the Bible and how it is to be understood when you say such things. You may have literally "read" it but obviously without a clue as to what it really means.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by jar, posted 05-04-2018 8:23 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by jar, posted 05-04-2018 8:27 AM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 92 of 882 (832463)
05-04-2018 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by Faith
05-04-2018 8:25 AM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Faith writes:
You demonstrate your own depth of ignorance of the Bible and how it is to be understood when you say such things. You may have literally "read" it but obviously without a clue as to what it really means.
So says Faith who constantly misrepresents what is actually in the Bible.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Faith, posted 05-04-2018 8:25 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Faith, posted 05-04-2018 9:53 AM jar has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 93 of 882 (832467)
05-04-2018 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Phat
05-03-2018 12:03 PM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Apart from becoming more aware of the differences, how did they in any way become more like God? And do we even have a clue as to how God was? All we have are human stories.
Genesis has God give an explicit and direct answer to that question.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Phat, posted 05-03-2018 12:03 PM Phat has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 94 of 882 (832471)
05-04-2018 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by jar
05-04-2018 8:27 AM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Only according to your illiterate way of reading it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by jar, posted 05-04-2018 8:27 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by ringo, posted 05-04-2018 11:46 AM Faith has replied
 Message 97 by jar, posted 05-04-2018 12:00 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 95 of 882 (832478)
05-04-2018 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Phat
05-04-2018 4:42 AM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Phat writes:
so who is "us"?
"Us" is the speaker,
quote:
Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us....
- i.e. the Lord God - and whomsoever He was speaking to. The text implies that they were His equals.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 05-04-2018 4:42 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 05-04-2018 12:45 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 96 of 882 (832479)
05-04-2018 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Faith
05-04-2018 9:53 AM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Faith writes:
Only according to your illiterate way of reading it.
Don't confuse literate with literal. But of course, your view of the Bible is neither.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Faith, posted 05-04-2018 9:53 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Faith, posted 05-04-2018 1:18 PM ringo has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 97 of 882 (832481)
05-04-2018 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Faith
05-04-2018 9:53 AM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Faith writes:
Only according to your illiterate way of reading it.
How is honestly reporting what is actually written illiterate?
The issue Faith is one of honesty.
The Bible is a creation of man, the very Fallen Mankind you claim exists.
There are factual errors, contradictions and even absurdities in the Bible Stories.
There is no single version of "The Bible" that is universal to Christianity, not even some universal Canon.
There is no single purpose or even thread that runs through all of the various stories that get included in Bibles.
The Bible is a collection of disparate and unconnected writings selected, edited, redacted and even revised by unknown authors, writers, editors, redactor and committee of Canon.
Christianity is a human creation, part theological but primarily political in nature.
It only makes sense to try to understand the evolution of the various pieces parts that make up the various dogmas of the various chapters of Club Christian.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Faith, posted 05-04-2018 9:53 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Faith, posted 05-04-2018 1:17 PM jar has not replied
 Message 493 by Phat, posted 05-26-2018 4:10 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 98 of 882 (832482)
05-04-2018 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by ringo
05-04-2018 11:44 AM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
ringo writes:
- i.e. the Lord God - and whomsoever He was speaking to. The text implies that they were His equals.
So because the book says so, you would conclude that at least in that case, God considered some audience somewhere as his equals??? You could start a whole new religion with that kind of thinking!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by ringo, posted 05-04-2018 11:44 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 05-04-2018 12:55 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 100 by ringo, posted 05-04-2018 1:01 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 99 of 882 (832483)
05-04-2018 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Phat
05-04-2018 12:45 PM


On "God" and "The Gods"
Phat writes:
So because the book says so, you would conclude that at least in that case, God considered some audience somewhere as his equals??? You could start a whole new religion with that kind of thinking!
No Phat, you would conclude that the authors of the stories believed that the Gods were equally real and held sway over their subjects.
This is basic Phat, that is the whole point of the Exodus story. There one God takes ownership of a peoples and says that no other god should have preference with that people.
quote:
Exodus 20:2-6
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 05-04-2018 12:45 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 100 of 882 (832484)
05-04-2018 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Phat
05-04-2018 12:45 PM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Phat writes:
So because the book says so, you would conclude that at least in that case, God considered some audience somewhere as his equals???
Why would you reject what the Book says in favour of what some goober says?
Phat writes:
You could start a whole new religion with that kind of thinking!
A religion that actually pays attention to its Book?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 05-04-2018 12:45 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Phat, posted 05-05-2018 12:49 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 101 of 882 (832486)
05-04-2018 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by jar
05-04-2018 12:00 PM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Wrong on all counts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by jar, posted 05-04-2018 12:00 PM jar has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 102 of 882 (832487)
05-04-2018 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by ringo
05-04-2018 11:46 AM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Wrong as usual. (I've learned from you that brief one liners are very effective.)
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by ringo, posted 05-04-2018 11:46 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by ringo, posted 05-04-2018 1:24 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 103 of 882 (832488)
05-04-2018 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Faith
05-04-2018 1:18 PM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Faith writes:
Wrong as usual.
So you're saying that confusing literal with literate is a good thing?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Faith, posted 05-04-2018 1:18 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Faith, posted 05-04-2018 1:25 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 104 of 882 (832489)
05-04-2018 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by ringo
05-04-2018 1:24 PM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Wrong as usual.
Hey this is fun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by ringo, posted 05-04-2018 1:24 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by ringo, posted 05-04-2018 2:08 PM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 105 of 882 (832492)
05-04-2018 1:52 PM


More on original sin and the fall
I note that there have been no substantive comments on my Message 66 describing both original sin and the idea of the fall as evil concoctions of our shamans' fevered minds.
We can be thankful for the Enlightenment! It freed many of us from this ancient evil.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

  
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