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Author Topic:   Religious Special Pleading
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9503
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 336 of 357 (831501)
04-19-2018 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by ringo
04-19-2018 12:17 PM


Ringo writes:
If you don't like their reasons, that's not an excuse for violating their freedom.
Their reasons are irrelevant if the practice is causing unnecessary harm. Which it is, as I've shown. If it was done just for fun, it would also be wrong. If it was done for no obvious reason at all, it would be wrong. In this case it's for religion.
Your evidence shows that there is harm in some cases. You can not extrapolate some to all.
I've shown harm in ALL cases. Bloodshed, pain, stress and in some cases further complications and death.
So you think that justifies banning jelly beans?
Of course, until the jelly beans were shown not to cause harm. Would you allow them to continue to be sold?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by ringo, posted 04-19-2018 12:17 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by ringo, posted 04-19-2018 1:21 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9503
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 342 of 357 (831507)
04-19-2018 2:11 PM


Could be interesting....
quote:
A mother whose baby son was in so much pain after he was circumcised that he could not wear a nappy is taking legal action against the doctor who carried out the surgery without her consent. She said the law should give boys the same protection as girls get from female genital mutilation.
Somebody needs to be held accountable for what they are doing to little boys, she told The Sunday Times.
Genital cutting: In the UK, a mother sues a doctor for circumcising her baby son without her consent

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9503
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 343 of 357 (831508)
04-19-2018 2:24 PM



Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9503
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 352 of 357 (831995)
04-28-2018 3:01 PM


One case of special pleading has been resolved - coroners must prioritise religious funerals over others even if it means others are delayed because of it.
quote:
A London coroner has been ordered by the High Court to change her "cab-rank" queuing policy for handling burials after it was ruled "unlawful".
Coroner ordered to change 'cab-rank' burial release policy - BBC News
I've no problem factoring in the stupid beliefs of believers so long as it doesn't impact on those of different beliefs or none but I guess this is one of the smaller inconveiences religionists impose on others.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9503
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 353 of 357 (833334)
05-20-2018 4:03 AM


Next week the Irish have a referrendum on abortion - their 6th attempt to remove the article banning it from their constitution. A real anomaly - few constitions have a such an amendment, created, of course by the Catholic church that had/has a total grasp on Irish life. 93% of Irish primary schools are Catholic.
In the past - and currently - the church's obsessions with all things sexual tried to stop such things as tampon sales and contraception.
The Catholic church in Ireland is losing its influence as a younger generation learns more of the world and the disgusting activities of priests and nuns over child abuse, cover-up and mother and baby homes are exposed. Attendance at mass is low and falling and priests are getting hard to recruit. But there is support for the anti-abortion from a growing Muslim community there.
It looks quite close, but the odds are that Irish women will finally get the right to choose.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9503
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 354 of 357 (833906)
05-28-2018 3:18 AM


The vote was 66% in favour of abortion, so another brick in religion's wall is kicked out.
Northern Ireland has a similar ban in place which is now coming under pressure for change. This one might be harder.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9503
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 355 of 357 (848180)
02-01-2019 1:23 PM


Well finally...
The first successful prosecution of FGM since the law was introduced in the mid 80's has just happened.
This is a particularly nasty case. The mother thought she was a witch
“While the parents were on bail, police searched the unemployed mother’s home and found evidence of witchcraft, including spells aimed at silencing police, social workers, officers and lawyers in the case.”
^^^The 40 frozen limes containing spells aimed at silencing police, social workers officers and lawyers. Photograph: Metropolitan police/PA
Mother of three-year-old is first person convicted of FGM in UK | Female genital mutilation (FGM) | The Guardian
People will believe absolutely anything.
Percy, can you see why that image isn't working?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

Replies to this message:
 Message 356 by Theodoric, posted 02-01-2019 1:46 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9503
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 357 of 357 (859139)
07-29-2019 3:02 AM
Reply to: Message 356 by Theodoric
02-01-2019 1:46 PM


This one is worth watching. Sadly, unlike the US, the UK teaches religion in public schools.
quote:
Parents launch court action over Christian school assemblies
Couple say their children are being indoctrinated and school did not provide good alternative
Burford primary school in the Cotswolds. It became an academy and in 2015 and joined the Church of England’s Oxford Diocesan Schools Trust.
A couple who say their children are being religiously indoctrinated during Christian school assemblies are to launch a high court challenge.
Lee and Lizanne Harris will say in a judicial review claim in the autumn that Burford primary school in Oxfordshire made their children take part in Christian prayers and watch re-enactments of Bible stories including the crucifixion.
The couple withdrew their children from the assemblies but say the school refused to provide a meaningful alternative of equal educational worth. Instead, the Harris children were put in a room with an iPad and supervised by a teaching assistant, according to their parents.
At the time the Harris children enrolled, Burford primary school was a community school with no religious character. But in 2015 it became an academy and joined the Church of England’s Oxford Diocesan Schools Trust (ODST).
All state schools are required to provide an act of daily worship of a broadly Christian character under the 1944 Education Act. Parents are entitled to withdraw their children from collective worship.
The Harrises, whose case will be heard at the high court in November, will argue that the school must provide an inclusive assembly as a meaningful alternative for pupils withdrawn from Christian worship.
They will raise concerns that during school assemblies, stories of God and Christianity were presented to children as fact, and that school leavers were presented with a Bible as a guide to life at a ceremony in a church.
The couple also claim that it is inappropriate that officials from a nearby church, St John the Baptist, which is part of the evangelical wing of the Church of England, regularly led worship at school assemblies.
In a statement, they said: We enrolled our children into a state community school — which is meant to have no religious character — but over time we noticed harmful aspects of evangelism spreading into assembly and other parts of the school which goes against our children’s rights to receive an education free from religious interference.
‘When our children go to school they shouldn’t have to participate in Christian prayers, or watch biblical scenes such as the crucifixion being acted out, nor should they have to hear from evangelical preachers who spout harmful and often divisive messages.
They were going to court reluctantly, they added, but [we] feel strongly that we need to try to make our children’s education as inclusive as possible.
We also don’t think it’s acceptable that they be left to play with an iPad because we’ve withdrawn them. They should be able to participate in an inclusive assembly that is of equal educational worth and which is welcoming and respectful of all students no matter their background.
The school’s website says daily assemblies provide space for children to develop a reflective approach to life, and the ability to express their thoughts. Additionally, it is a time when children and staff come together to celebrate shared beliefs and values relating to the day to day life of school.
Once a week, it says, assemblies are organised by the children’s coordinator at St John the Baptist church at which Bible stories are read and brought to life through interactive drama using mime, costume, props, puppets and sound effects, with the children also getting involved.
The website of the ODST, whose 33 church and community schools educate more than 6,100 children, says the trust is motivated by our Christian values to serve our local communities, but we do not impose those values We welcome those of all faiths and none, and we are proud of the ethnic diversity within our academies which reflects that of their local community.
In a statement, the trust said: Collective worship, which is a statutory requirement in all church and community schools, is aimed at encouraging pupils to develop a sense of mystery, awe and wonder about the world. This is all done through listening to stories from a wide range of different cultures and religions, giving time for children to think about themselves, and the contribution they all make to our society.
It said it was confident that Burford primary school, as a community school, has acted entirely appropriately, and has followed all statutory requirements.
Andrew Copson, chief executive of Humanists UK, which is supporting the couple’s legal challenge, said: We are the only sovereign state in the world to require schools to hold daily Christian worship, yet 80% of our young people and 75% of people of parental age are not Christians. Our state schools are instead home to children of a broad diversity of cultures and backgrounds and they deserve and need inclusive activities that bring them together as one community.
Requiring children to participate in religious worship and then marginalising them if in good conscience they cannot, ignores their right to freedom of religion or belief and is a negation of inclusion.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 356 by Theodoric, posted 02-01-2019 1:46 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
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