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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1469 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
The only way you "can still follow Jesus" while believing evolution is true is by denying a lot of the written Word that Jesus considered to be God's word and making a "leap" of faith that has no ground to land on. Right. I forgot that you were the arbiter of all things Christian. Here are some things that you may have forgotten: All of Christianity, including being salvation itself, requires a leap of faith. And the ground you have to land on are the promises of Jesus himself. Nothing else but God's grace is required. Remind me not to bring you and your baggage out in the neighborhoods when we talk to sinners. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Wouldn't want to be part of such an irrational undertaking. On this we can fully agree. But we are way off the topic. Perhaps another place... Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
That's discrimination pure and simple. Jack Phillips will lose this case. It is discrimination, pure and simple, and Mr. Phillips, in a just world, would lose the case. My guess is that he will lose a very close vote. However, it is a vote that could and like would go another way if Kennedy or one of the very old Justices (like Ginsburg) retires during a Trump presidency. Meanwhile, the rest of the federal judiciary is silently being made over by Trump, and a Republican Congress that rubber stamps all of his judicial appointments. Stand by for more crap on the same level of bad as this decision might be. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
So for all of you who thought that Clinton wasn't "good enough," a hearty "FUCK YOU." Would we be in this position if Gorsich were not on the Court? I hear you brother. I'm backing off a little on this point, not because of anything to do with the cases you name, but because most of the folks who decided that Hillary was not good enough, had plenty of cover. RAZD, for example, doesn't even live in a state that could have made a difference. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I will point out that normally left-leaning justices Breyer and Kagan also joined the decision, and a quick glance at their concurring opinion seems to emphasis this hostility part. Yes. The hostility part is quite important. It does matter substantially how the trier of fact and the legislature act when either trying cases or passing laws. The court essentially punted this case and are putting off deciding things until there is a cleaner case. I don't know what cases are currently in the pipeline. And, oh look. Clarence Thomas finally found a second case of discrimination. He agrees that cross burning on the lawn of a black family probably is discrimination, and now that gay marriage is the law of the land, he has managed to find that protesting against it is a minority view worthy of "cross burning" level protection. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
After reading over the posts in this thread, it looks like Rhain predicted the outcome. He pointed to this statement as a sticking point:
quote: Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Finally, Thomas repeats his warnings that he gave in his dissent to Obergefell, namely, that Obergefell would be used to squash dissent against same sex marriage If Thomas reasoning is correct, does that make it a valid argument? Does making folks serve black people discourage dissent against integration mixing? So what if it does?
Thomas then repeats that past cases show that expression of ideas (or, in this case, the refusal to express ideas) cannot be banned just because some person or group finds [the] them offensive. What Thomas needs to show is that the expression of ideas trumps the civil rights of others. I don't believe he can do that. In my opinion, the fact that Thomas was completely wrong in Obergefell really weakens his argument here. What was at stake in Obergefell was nothing less than state-enforced inequality for no constitutionally justifiable reason. What Thomas is advocating is returning to that situation so that it is clear that, similar to Dred Scott, gay folks have no rights that a black or white person is "bound to respect."[1] Thomas' opinion is irrelevant here, except that he is 1/9 of the Supreme Court, and his reasoning is one of several reasonings that might gather 5 justices on the wrong side of the issue later. It is pretty clear that Clarence is not going to change his mind in a case where the hostility issues are not present. Revised by Edit Edited by NoNukes, : Add historical reference. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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a little persecution should sharpen our sense of priorities I hear you loud and clear. Fundamentalist Christian parents are going to have to have "the talk" with their children who would be bakers of cakes or who want to run a tuxedo shop. Watch out! If you do that, you may find yourself having to either bake a cake for some undesirable or get into another business. Best to learn some calculus or how to plumb a sink. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
o far so good as far as that SCOTUS decision goes but it's awfully limited and doesn't challenge the real issue which is the conflict created with biblical faith by the legalizing of gay marriage. I don't see how the legalization affects it. Beyond that, the original concern, as expressed here, is not one q question that the Supreme Court could have addressed. If in fact, granting a right to one group conflicts with the wants and desires of others, that concern of necessity must be secondary at best. In fact, every grant of civil rights under the constitution offends somebody. Just allowing any Chinese or Muslims into the country already offends some folks. When it comes to allowing one group of folks to have the secular benefits of marriage, when their marriages is absolutely none of the business of the rest of us, my religious objects simply cannot be an important consideration. Marriages are about your relationship as a couple to the state, and the state, under our Constitution, cannot make religious denials of rights any more than they can make ethnic or racial denials. I'll admit here that I am an old fogey, and I do still get, weirded out when I see gay folks kiss on television. On the other hand, I used to turn my head when cowboys kissed women instead of their horses. My own feelings of ickiness, even when backed by religious teachings, simply cannot be a real reason to disallow other folks from doing what they want. The Bible lists a whole bunch of things that are abominations and worse. However gay marriage alone is singled out as the one thing that ought to be a reason for society to BOHICA to bigots. Not buying it, and neither should you. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Nobody is singling out gay marriage except people asking for specifically gay wedding paraphernalia from people whose belief in God forbids gay weddings. That's what the Supreme Court did, Christians aren't doing any singling out of anybody Your comment is off target. I did not say anything about gay people being singled out. My comment was about the cherry picking by some folks regarding which abominations in the Bible they are going to take seriously. The Supreme Court did not single anyone out. They are making general statements that apply to everyone regardless of their religious affiliation. What the Supreme Court did not do was give fundamentalist beliefs any particular weight. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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They legalized gay marriage, redefining it as a civil right, which is a direct challenge to those who believe God created marriage for the purpose of joining the sexes. DIRECT challenge to a specific belief by Bible Christians. Legalizing interracial marriage was exactly the same kind of challenge to supposedly right-thinking Christians. I am not impressed by your double talk. A lot of things, including a lot of policy enacted by the current administration, are direct challenges to my strongly held Christian beliefs, but that does not mean that those laws are unconstitutional. What you are complaining about are laws that provide other folks rights. I have no sympathy for that whatsoever. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
They were not "right thinking Christians," they were opposing the Bible in many ways. That is not what they claimed. They sounded exactly as you do now.
Racism itself is contrary to the Bible. That's demonstrably wrong. All kinds of nationalism and xenophobia are well supported in the Bible, as is the notion that whole entire lines of folks are condemned by heritage alone. That kind of thinking can well serve as the foundation of racism, and historically it has done so. You are not proving your point with this. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Right, how they "sound" is now the deciding factor, not anything about objective truth. So goes the world. I know that it is pointless to argue with you. I only do it because it gives me a chance to attach my signature file to responses to you about bigotry. I know that is a silly motivation on my part, but the irony is quite compelling. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
quote: Wow. Scalia was right about something else. I think my current count is eight. Muslim Woman Denied Job Over Head Scarf Wins in Supreme Court - The New York Times
quote: Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Only half a century ago "God" would have meant the Christian God in America and probably Europe too. That was never the interpretation of the first amendment. As Paul has shown, the authors always intended it to include protection for other religions. But I hear where you are going from. I remember those days when you could call a spade a spade. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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