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Author Topic:   Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1066 of 1484 (834569)
06-08-2018 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1061 by Faith
06-08-2018 2:03 PM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
Faith writes:
Nobody is persecuting gay people.
Refusing ANY service to one person while providing it for another is not a symptom of loving thy neighbour. If you can't provide a service indiscriminately, you have no business being in the business at all - either on the basis of Christianity or on the basis of good citizenship.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1061 by Faith, posted 06-08-2018 2:03 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1098 of 1484 (834650)
06-09-2018 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1090 by Faith
06-08-2018 7:03 PM


Re: What about messages to other religiouns?
Faith writes:
Only half a century ago "God" would have meant the Christian God in America and probably Europe too.
The problem with freedom of religion is that if you extend rights to Presbyterians who are wrong and Methodists who are wrong and Anglicans who are wrong, you also have to extend rights to Baptists who are wrong and even Catholics who are wrong. That inevitably leads to extending rights to Jews who are wrong and then everything just starts slipping down the slope.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1090 by Faith, posted 06-08-2018 7:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1100 by Faith, posted 06-09-2018 5:54 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1118 of 1484 (834706)
06-10-2018 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1100 by Faith
06-09-2018 5:54 PM


Re: What about messages to other religiouns?
Faith writes:
If it was just a matter of individuals practing their beliefs, and their beliefs are not violent or destructive of society, no problem, but unfortunately that isn't the case with all religions.
You seem to have lost the plot. What we're talking about here is gay marriage, not destroying society. The point is that your religious beliefs are as valid as anybody else's but society can not entrench you beliefs at the expense of everybody else's. You can believe until the cows come home that God hates homosexuality but you can not act on that belief any more than somebody else can act on his belief that infidels should be killed. Your beliefs are protected; your actions are not.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1100 by Faith, posted 06-09-2018 5:54 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1120 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 3:40 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1121 of 1484 (834720)
06-10-2018 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1120 by Faith
06-10-2018 3:40 PM


Re: What about messages to other religiouns?
Faith writes:
So dies Truth, the basis of western civilization, iinterestingly and ironically by being made to serve a lie.
The only lie here is your misinterpretation of the Bible, coupled with your misinterpretation of the Constitution, your misinterpretation of history, etc.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1120 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 3:40 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1122 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 4:45 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1124 of 1484 (834766)
06-11-2018 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1122 by Faith
06-10-2018 4:45 PM


Re: What about messages to other religiouns?
Faith writes:
So dies the Truth.
The truth died in you a long time ago, as evidenced by the fact that you're wrong about almost everything. You seem to embrace being wrong. You seem to like being wrong just for the sake of being wrong.
Ignorance is curable. I don't know if determination to be wrong in all things is curable.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1122 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 4:45 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1127 of 1484 (835256)
06-20-2018 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1126 by Faith
06-20-2018 5:27 AM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
Faith writes:
I thought I was talking about the basis for our laws which I surmised had the natural family in mind.
The "natural family" is anybody who provides the child with what he/she needs physically, emotionally, etc. Don't confuse the "natural family" with the biological family. Any biological entity can have offspring; it's what they do with/for the offspring that makes a family - and that is what our laws should reflect.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1126 by Faith, posted 06-20-2018 5:27 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1128 by Faith, posted 06-20-2018 3:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 1130 of 1484 (835261)
06-20-2018 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1128 by Faith
06-20-2018 3:31 PM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
Faith writes:
I'm talking about what I understand the LAW to have had in mind.
What the law originally had in mind is not the only consideration. That's why we have courts to interpret the law and why we have legislatures to adjust the law to fit changing circumstances. Originally, the law didn't need to concern itself with cars and aircraft but now it does. Originally, the law didn't need to treat blacks, women and gays as humans but now it does.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1128 by Faith, posted 06-20-2018 3:31 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1131 by Faith, posted 06-20-2018 8:37 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1134 of 1484 (835314)
06-21-2018 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1131 by Faith
06-20-2018 8:37 PM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
Faith writes:
Equating gays with blacks and women is a monumental failure of basic logic....
Feel free to point out the logic.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1131 by Faith, posted 06-20-2018 8:37 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1136 of 1484 (835332)
06-21-2018 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1135 by Faith
06-21-2018 3:38 PM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
Faith writes:
...the logical problem is that gayness is not a natural inborn category as being black or female is....
That isn't a "logical problem". It's you not recognizing what is commonly accepted as a fact. Similarly, not accepting that men landed on the moon is not a "logical problem".

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1135 by Faith, posted 06-21-2018 3:38 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1155 of 1484 (835375)
06-22-2018 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1143 by Faith
06-22-2018 12:36 AM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
Faith writes:
And please name any such "preference" that should have special civil rights ststus.
The preference for partners of the opposite sex has special civil rights status. We're trying to fix that.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1143 by Faith, posted 06-22-2018 12:36 AM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1156 of 1484 (835376)
06-22-2018 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1151 by Faith
06-22-2018 6:39 AM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
Faith writes:
Acting on them is sin, and so is homosexual behavior. It is not like being born black or white or male or female.
The only way to act on being black or female is to demand equal rights. Why is a homosexual demanding equal rights different?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1151 by Faith, posted 06-22-2018 6:39 AM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1164 of 1484 (835419)
06-23-2018 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1163 by Faith
06-23-2018 12:22 PM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
Faith writes:
Yeah I used to believe there were no consequences to sin too....
It's funny how you were wrong and then you changed your mind and you were still wrong.
We all know that there are consequences for our actions, whether our actions are "sin" or something else. When we get smacked down by the consequences, it isn't "God", it's reality.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1163 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 12:22 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1165 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 12:36 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1168 of 1484 (835426)
06-23-2018 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1165 by Faith
06-23-2018 12:36 PM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
Faith writes:
Calling the idea of sin "superstitious garbage" is what I was responding to. That implies there is no such thing as sin.
I don't know if Tangle would agree with me but I would say that "sin" is real - only it's internal. It's our conscience telling us we shouldn't do something and making us feel guilty after we did it. But the part where some alien overlord decides what is "sin" is superstitious garbage. It's ourselves and our society that decides what is "sin".
Faith writes:
And the consequences are pretty clearly supernatural.
Well, no. That isn't clear at all.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1165 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 12:36 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1169 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 12:54 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1170 of 1484 (835433)
06-23-2018 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1169 by Faith
06-23-2018 12:54 PM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
Faith writes:
You aren't in a position to see that they are supernatural beause I haven't said enough about it and don't intend to; I'm telling you they are supernatural, they are not normal social consequences.
I didn't say anything about social consequences. I mentioned reality - i.e. observable, physical consequences. Sexually-transmitted disease would be an example - real consequences as opposed to imagined "supernatural" ones.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1169 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 12:54 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1171 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 2:48 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1172 of 1484 (835450)
06-23-2018 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1171 by Faith
06-23-2018 2:48 PM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
Faith writes:
Supernatural means no recognizable natural connection between the cause and the effect except a symbolic one.
Your inability to recognize a natural connection doesn't mean there isn't one. Jumping to the conclusion of "supernatural" is superstition.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1171 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 2:48 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1173 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 3:20 PM ringo has replied

  
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