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Author Topic:   Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1101 of 1484 (834659)
06-09-2018 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1099 by Chiroptera
06-09-2018 1:02 PM


Re: Constitutional freedom of religion and its discontents
Baptists don't have an agenda to rule the world, no Kalifa or Jihad or Inquisition that I know of.
As for Muslims having their own areas I've heard that Dearborn Michigan is pretty much a "no go" zone. Perhaps I heard wrong but that's what I heard.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1099 by Chiroptera, posted 06-09-2018 1:02 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1102 by Modulous, posted 06-09-2018 6:17 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1103 of 1484 (834661)
06-09-2018 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1099 by Chiroptera
06-09-2018 1:02 PM


Re: Constitutional freedom of religion and its discontents
I don't really see a worrisome trend here just because some Jesuit somewhere said something.
I could recommend some books on the Jesuits that might change your mind.
At least John Adams seems to have been up on the Jesuits
:
This society [Jesuits] has been a greater calamity to mankind than the French Revolution, or Napoleon's despotism or ideology. It has obstructed the progress of reformation and the improvement of the human mind in society much longer and more fatally.
And another source:
In 1814, the Society of Jesus was restored after being suppressed for 41 years. Not everyone welcomed them back, as this letter of John Adams to Thomas Jefferson attests:
I do not like the reappearance of the Jesuits. Shall we not have regular swarms of them here, in as many disguises as only a king of the gipsies can assume, dressed as printers, publishers, writers and schoolmasters? If ever there was a body of men who merited damnation on earth and in Hell, it is this society of Loyola’s. Nevertheless, we are compelled by our system of religious toleration to offer them an asylum.
John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, May 5, 1816

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1099 by Chiroptera, posted 06-09-2018 1:02 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1104 of 1484 (834662)
06-09-2018 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1102 by Modulous
06-09-2018 6:17 PM


Re: Constitutional freedom of religion and its discontents
Now I've got two competing unsupported assertions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1102 by Modulous, posted 06-09-2018 6:17 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1107 by Modulous, posted 06-09-2018 6:47 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1105 of 1484 (834663)
06-09-2018 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1097 by NoNukes
06-09-2018 3:21 AM


Re: What about messages to other religiouns?
we've already got a Jeseuit [sic] professor calling the Constitution so antiquated it should be done away with.
One individual opinion means little and is not representative.
See Message 1103

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1097 by NoNukes, posted 06-09-2018 3:21 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1106 of 1484 (834664)
06-09-2018 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1086 by PaulK
06-08-2018 4:15 PM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
You have to admit that if the benefits of marriage are to help raise children it makes no sense to give them to a childless heterosexual couple while denying them to a gay couple with children.
And yet that is what you wish to do. Obviously it is not about raising children.
It's about heterosexual unions, which is the natural source of children, that principle is what the benefits honor. Other funds are available for other situations anyway.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1086 by PaulK, posted 06-08-2018 4:15 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1112 by PaulK, posted 06-10-2018 2:58 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 1125 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-20-2018 3:05 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1108 of 1484 (834666)
06-09-2018 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1107 by Modulous
06-09-2018 6:47 PM


Re: Constitutional freedom of religion and its discontents
Yeah I'm not up to doing the research to argue with you about it so I'll let it stand. I do kind of wonder what you'd think if you visited Dearborn and stayed for a while.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1107 by Modulous, posted 06-09-2018 6:47 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1109 by Modulous, posted 06-09-2018 7:52 PM Faith has replied
 Message 1110 by NoNukes, posted 06-10-2018 1:02 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1111 of 1484 (834683)
06-10-2018 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1109 by Modulous
06-09-2018 7:52 PM


Re: Constitutional freedom of religion and its discontents
Good for you, Mod.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1109 by Modulous, posted 06-09-2018 7:52 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1117 by Modulous, posted 06-10-2018 11:37 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1114 of 1484 (834690)
06-10-2018 4:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1113 by dwise1
06-10-2018 3:39 AM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
As I thought I said, it is the PRINCIPLE of heterosexual union which is the NATURAL source of children that qualifies for the benefits of marriage, that's what society intended to encourage. Marriage didn't have to be the solution to the dilemmas you are talking about, they should have come up with a different omnibus solution to the problems.. It might have been difficult but better in the long run..
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1120 of 1484 (834714)
06-10-2018 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1118 by ringo
06-10-2018 2:09 PM


Re: What about messages to other religiouns?
The point is that your religious beliefs are as valid as anybody else's but society can not entrench you beliefs at the expense of everybody else's. You can believe until the cows come home ...but you can not act on that belief any more than somebody else can act on his belief that infidels should be killed. Your beliefs are protected; your actions are not.
Indeed. As I said, I accept the handwriting on the wall. So dies Truth, the basis of western civilization, iinterestingly and ironically by being made to serve a lie. I wonder how long it will be before some of those other "beliefs" show that they are going to act on them no matter what the law says and that their beliefs require actions that are violent tyrannies to subjugate all other beliefs, beliefs, in other words, that respect none of your fancy philosophies about Rights and equality. A few decades maybe? By which time you'll all have forgotten history so thoroughly you'll just be happy dhimmies anyway. Or dead.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1118 by ringo, posted 06-10-2018 2:09 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1121 by ringo, posted 06-10-2018 3:55 PM Faith has replied
 Message 1123 by Chiroptera, posted 06-11-2018 9:59 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1122 of 1484 (834729)
06-10-2018 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1121 by ringo
06-10-2018 3:55 PM


Re: What about messages to other religiouns?
Right. So dies the Truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1121 by ringo, posted 06-10-2018 3:55 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1126 of 1484 (835233)
06-20-2018 5:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1125 by Hyroglyphx
06-20-2018 3:05 AM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
I thought I was talking about the basis for our laws which I surmised had the natural family in mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1125 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-20-2018 3:05 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1127 by ringo, posted 06-20-2018 3:28 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1128 of 1484 (835258)
06-20-2018 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1127 by ringo
06-20-2018 3:28 PM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
I'm talking about what I understand the LAW to have had in mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1127 by ringo, posted 06-20-2018 3:28 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1129 by PaulK, posted 06-20-2018 3:39 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 1130 by ringo, posted 06-20-2018 3:47 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1131 of 1484 (835282)
06-20-2018 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1130 by ringo
06-20-2018 3:47 PM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
Equating gays with blacks and women is a monumental failure of basic logic, but that's the way the world is going and there's no stopping it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1130 by ringo, posted 06-20-2018 3:47 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1132 by Tangle, posted 06-21-2018 3:01 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 1133 by Chiroptera, posted 06-21-2018 9:57 AM Faith has replied
 Message 1134 by ringo, posted 06-21-2018 11:36 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1135 of 1484 (835329)
06-21-2018 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1133 by Chiroptera
06-21-2018 9:57 AM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
I've noticed that when people complain about a "failure of logic", they're not really pointing to a failure of the logic itself but that the other side doesn't just accept their premises without question.
Well, then, perhaps there's nothing I can say to defend the point in a way you would accept, but the logical problem is that gayness is not a natural inborn category as being black or female is, it's primarily a behavior or an inclination. I know the argument is that people just seem to be born gay, but we're all "born with" whatever sins are dominant in us so that doesn't prove there is a category of homosexuality that is just natural. Christians often come up against sins we find extremely hard to "mortify," that is, put to death, which is what we're told to do with sins. Some sins are more ingrained than others in each of us and harder to put to death, it takes longer, it's more of a struggle. That is probably the case with some forms of homosexuality. And of course unless you're a Christian you don't have any desire even to try to put it to death so it just gets more and more ingrained.
That's all just an attempt to explain why homosexuality can seem like it's just your inborn identity, and I appreciate that the impression is strong and convincing. But it's not an inborn identity the way being born black or white or male or female is. It's just not. And yet the law is now treating it as if it is. Logically the law is wrong.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1133 by Chiroptera, posted 06-21-2018 9:57 AM Chiroptera has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1136 by ringo, posted 06-21-2018 4:03 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 1137 by Taq, posted 06-21-2018 5:00 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 1138 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-21-2018 5:56 PM Faith has replied
 Message 1150 by Tangle, posted 06-22-2018 3:08 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1139 of 1484 (835346)
06-21-2018 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1138 by Hyroglyphx
06-21-2018 5:56 PM


Re: Opinion piece from the Guardian
There are no known physical components to homosexuality, they are either males or females like the rest of us, it's entirely an emotional/mental/psychological condition. That is also the case with transsexuals. The only physical sexual anomaly is hermaphroditism and that is very rare and that doesn't even necessarily have an emotional component. As I said I understand the compelling feelings involved -- but they are feelings, not the body itself. And again, we all have urges that are called sin that can also be quite compelling. Most sins I'm sure you wouldn't want to give civil rights status.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1138 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-21-2018 5:56 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1140 by DrJones*, posted 06-21-2018 11:46 PM Faith has replied
 Message 1142 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-22-2018 12:24 AM Faith has replied

  
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