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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2007 of 4573 (831094)
04-11-2018 11:09 PM


Royal wedding invitation list. As expected...
I was reading today that the there will be no "Official Guests" for the wedding between Prince Harry and Meghan Markle and that neither Trump or Obama or will be invited. I think that is what most people had predicted for quite some time.
Now, the wedding would not have been a state visit, and in pondering that, I was curious about whether Trump not having a state visit yet is something unusual. I have concluded that it is not. Obama, of course, did have a state visit on which we met Queen Elizabeth, but it was not until well into his first term. And so far only two US presidents have had a state visit with a meeting with Queen Elizabeth dating back to the early 1950s. Obama and George W.
Now what is unusual is that Trump has not been to England at all a year into his presidency. Obama made his first visit (which was not a state visit) three months into his presidency. Trump has yet to drag his orangeness over there.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2009 of 4573 (831131)
04-12-2018 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2006 by NoNukes
04-11-2018 7:11 PM


Trump is an idiot... was Re: Loose lips sink ships
After his Twitter announcement of missile attacks on Syria caught enormous flack, Trump tweets this today...
quote:
Never said when an attack on Syria would take place. Could be very soon or not so soon at all! In any event, the United States, under my Administration, has done a great job of ridding the region of ISIS. Where is our Thank you America?
The man is a fool and a narcissist to boot. Who elected this man to anything?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2006 by NoNukes, posted 04-11-2018 7:11 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2015 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-21-2018 5:09 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2021 of 4573 (832559)
05-05-2018 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 2017 by Rrhain
04-26-2018 8:11 PM


Re: Two Hours
Either he was your lawyer and this is work product or he wasn't and this isn't.
1. A lawyer does not have to be paid to have an obligation of confidentiality.
2. Protection for attorney work product and privilege are two slightly different things. Work product protection applies only to documents that are generated in anticipation of litigation. The possible subject matter coverage is very wide.
On the other hand, attorney-client privilege applies only to conversations with a lawyer for the purpose of gaining legal advice and not conversations with a third party. The subject matter that can be covered is very limited. If you were talking about a business deal, then the privilege would not cover the discussion.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2017 by Rrhain, posted 04-26-2018 8:11 PM Rrhain has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2024 by Percy, posted 05-06-2018 7:43 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2027 of 4573 (832638)
05-06-2018 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 2026 by Percy
05-06-2018 1:03 PM


Alan Dershowitz is on Meet the Press saying that motive is not a factor in determining whether a crime has been committed. True?
I think it is true, but the application of such a rule requires much care.
"Intent" is an element of a crime, but intent and motive are legally distinct different things. But in everyday speech, those terms are so closely related, that I probably would not make Alan's statement without qualifying it.
Also, if someone has a motive, the motive is a piece of evidence suggesting that the person committed the crime. But lack of motive and presence of motive alone are obviously not sufficient.
What was the context of the statement?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2026 by Percy, posted 05-06-2018 1:03 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2029 by Percy, posted 05-10-2018 10:10 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 2028 of 4573 (832640)
05-06-2018 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 2024 by Percy
05-06-2018 7:43 AM


Re: Two Hours
If Trump talks about his own legal matters, including the conversations with Cohen and Giuliani, with a golfing buddy, that is not privileged.
Once a fact has been disclosed to a third party who does not owe a duty of privilege, that fact cannot be protected by privilege even if it was discussed with the lawyer.
If so, does that mean that Cohen and Giuliani can be compelled to testify about the same legal matters discussed with the golfing buddy?
The situation under which one's lawyer would have to testify against you are very limited. Maybe Cohen is in that position, but probably not Giuliani. However, if there were documents written by Cohen and Giuliani that had that information on them, those documents would have to be turned over if requested or subpoenaed.
If Trump, Cohen or Giuliani talks about Trump's legal matters to the press, is whatever they talk about public and no longer privileged?
That is absolutely correct.
For example, if Giuliani tells the press that Trump reimbursed Cohen for the Stormy Daniels payment, do other related matters become non-privileged, such as conversations between Trump and Cohen about the Daniels payoff?
You cannot uncover new information this way. So not related matters.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2024 by Percy, posted 05-06-2018 7:43 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2030 by Percy, posted 05-10-2018 10:15 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2031 of 4573 (832794)
05-10-2018 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2029 by Percy
05-10-2018 10:10 AM


Dershowitz was in essence arguing that it didn't matter whether the president's motive in firing Comey was his screwing up the Clinton email server investigation or to obstruct the Russia investigation.
In that case, I would suggest that Dershowitz is blurring the line between intent and motive.
ABE:
Let me give the classic example. In an at-will state, you can fire a person for no reason whatsoever, but it is illegal to fire someone for an illegal reason such as age discrimination or to get rid of a whistleblower. Now is that an issue of motive or intent?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2029 by Percy, posted 05-10-2018 10:10 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2039 of 4573 (833668)
05-24-2018 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 2038 by Percy
05-24-2018 2:00 PM


Re: Nobel! Nobel! Nobel!
This might seem like a wasted opportunity, squandered by Trump officials who were unable to keep their big mouths shut (specifically, Pompeo, Bolton, Pence).
I am of the opinion that those folks were charged with blowing up the summit.
There was a perception internationally that Kim was playing our administration like a Stradivarius. I think Trump and his advisors wanted out of a meeting that they were ill prepared to handle and that Trump allowed his squad of idiots to mouth provoke Kim until there was an excuse to back out of the deal. Other than scuttling the deal noting diplomatically was accomplished by Pence, Bolton or Pompeo.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2038 by Percy, posted 05-24-2018 2:00 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2040 by Percy, posted 05-25-2018 8:25 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2041 of 4573 (833672)
05-25-2018 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 2040 by Percy
05-25-2018 8:25 AM


Re: Nobel! Nobel! Nobel!
The part about denuclearization is a pipe dream. I don't believe Kim has made a single move toward denuclearization, and I don't believe he will in the future. The test site that was blown up yesterday was no longer usable.
I agree. But apparently, some folks are pressing the idea that the destruction of the test site was a Trump accomplishment that no other president could match. What is actually the case is that North Korea has during the Trump years managed to test enormously more power nuclear weapons and has now rendered their test site unusable. That is not an accomplishment for the US.
Yes, it is unfair to blame Trump for that. On the other hand, if Republican House lackeys actually believe that Trump had already earned a Nobel Prize for his work with Korea, work which has been nothing more than matching Kim's penis waving rhetoric, then maybe the last week or will be a dose of reality.
The announcement from North Korea that is supposedly the reason that the summit was canceled was no stronger and no more childish than the needlessly provocative outbursts from Pompeo and Pence. Further, the response was utterly predictable.
I don't think Bolton needed any direction - he didn't want the summit anyway. What he wants to blow up is North Korea.
Probably so. But if he had gotten too far ahead of Trump, I think he'd be gone for making those remarks. I think Trump was fine with Bolton saying what he did, and I would not be surprised if he pre-approved them.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2040 by Percy, posted 05-25-2018 8:25 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2042 by jar, posted 05-25-2018 9:34 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2043 of 4573 (833681)
05-25-2018 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 2042 by jar
05-25-2018 9:34 AM


Re: Nobel! Nobel! Nobel!
I think you are giving too much credit for organization, communication and attention span.
That is certainly possible. It is something that I consider when I am making predictions such as the one I made here. I certainly don't give Trump the credit for those things. However there are a few smart folks at Trump's disposal, and I am sure that at least some of them can see what everyone else in the world sees; namely that North Korea is playing us and South Korea for total saps, and that even the agreement to a summit only benefited Kim.
Perhaps those folks managed to win one.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2042 by jar, posted 05-25-2018 9:34 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2044 by Phat, posted 05-25-2018 1:22 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2045 of 4573 (833951)
05-28-2018 2:24 PM


It's all about Me...
This is how our president acknowledges the men and woman who fought and died or were injured for this country.
Trump tweeted...
quote:
"Happy Memorial Day! Those who died for our great country would be very happy and proud at how well our country is doing today. Best economy in decades, lowest unemployment numbers for Blacks and Hispanics EVER (& women in 18years), rebuilding our Military and so much more. Nice!"
I'd welcome any explanation of how this is not just one more piece of evidence that we have elected a narcissist to the office of the presidency. How can you be a veteran or the family of a deceased veteran and not be disgusted?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

Replies to this message:
 Message 2046 by Chiroptera, posted 05-28-2018 2:54 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2048 of 4573 (834031)
05-29-2018 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2047 by Chiroptera
05-29-2018 2:58 PM


Re: "Mueller is rigging the elections!"
I was at the laundromat this morning, and the TV was broadcasting a report that Trump (via Twitter, because of course!) is claiming that Mueller's team is going to try to rig the midterm elections.
A despot trying to wake up his base of support. Nothing more or less. Lies work perfectly well for that kind of thing. Attacks on Mueller are "Kool-Aid" for those supporters.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2047 by Chiroptera, posted 05-29-2018 2:58 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2049 by Chiroptera, posted 05-29-2018 5:25 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2051 of 4573 (834455)
06-06-2018 1:55 PM


Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
During the discussions with Canada about tariffs that are ostensibly justified base on national security concerns, Trump apparently accused Canada of being a threat to the US during the war of 1812.
quote:
According to the sources, Trudeau pressed Trump on how he could justify the tariffs as a "national security" issue. In response, Trump quipped to Trudeau, "Didn't you guys burn down the White House?" referring to the War of 1812.
Of course, the real story is that it was the British who were involved in the War of 1812, which was started after the US attacked York Ontario, which at the time was a British colony.
Whether or not the tariffs are a good idea is a political question that I won't go into here, but whether or not the 'national security' justification will fly if taken to the World Trade Organization is pretty clear. It won't work. Now Trump may not care about the WTO because, well MAGA. But if the US is unable to get the WTO to take up its complaints, then perhaps this tactic is not to our benefit.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

Replies to this message:
 Message 2052 by Percy, posted 06-07-2018 2:58 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2057 of 4573 (834535)
06-07-2018 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 2052 by Percy
06-07-2018 2:58 PM


Re: Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
Canada was a British colony during the War of 1812, so even though having no choice in the matter they were on the British side and considered a threat. It's even possible Canadians served in the British unit that burned the White House, though who knows.
Really?
There was no Canada in 1812. And as an indication that Canada is a national security threat, citing the war of 1812 is even more ridiculous given that the burning of the US Capital was done by British Troops as a response to an invasion of Canada by the United States.
We might just as well cite attacks by Native Americans from what is now Canada on what is now the US as a current national security threat.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2052 by Percy, posted 06-07-2018 2:58 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2058 by xongsmith, posted 06-08-2018 3:23 AM NoNukes has not replied
 Message 2060 by Percy, posted 06-09-2018 8:29 AM NoNukes has replied
 Message 2068 by caffeine, posted 06-12-2018 12:35 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2065 of 4573 (834739)
06-10-2018 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2060 by Percy
06-09-2018 8:29 AM


Re: Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
Not sure what point you're making here. Sure things were organized politically a bit differently back then, but why is referring to it as Canada a problem?
Because that would be incorrect and misleading? Did the example I gave about Native Americans not make my point.
What's wrong with referring to the British government in 1812 as Canada is that it is ridiculous.
ABE:
"political organized a bit differently"
Completely differently, Percy.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2060 by Percy, posted 06-09-2018 8:29 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2066 by Percy, posted 06-12-2018 10:12 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2067 of 4573 (834802)
06-12-2018 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2066 by Percy
06-12-2018 10:12 AM


Re: Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
What was so different?
I cannot take this question seriously. You may have the last word.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2066 by Percy, posted 06-12-2018 10:12 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
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