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ringo
Member
Posts: 15801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 646 of 662 (834162)
05-31-2018 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 645 by Phat
05-31-2018 12:16 PM


Re: Why do we have so few creationists
Phat writes:

The point is that you have no right to claim the default position


Of course we do. What other default can there be but reality?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1908
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 647 of 662 (834163)
05-31-2018 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 645 by Phat
05-31-2018 12:16 PM


Re: Why do we have so few creationists
The point is that you have no right to claim the default position

In a discussion of a science topic, it seems perfectly legitimate to claim that the purpose of science is to model our understanding of the natural world as close to reality as possible.

I'm puzzled by your reasoning that reality is not the default position.

Edited by Tanypteryx, : spelling


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


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jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 648 of 662 (834164)
05-31-2018 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 647 by Tanypteryx
05-31-2018 12:39 PM


Re: Why do we have so few creationists
Can not A'Tuin be both male and female?

Would the world not be equally stable were there only three elephants?

Could A'Tuin not be a whale?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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Faith
Member
Posts: 30252
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 649 of 662 (835523)
06-24-2018 9:12 AM


This needs to stop
This post by PaulK Message 864 has gone over the line into sheer personal attack after tending in that direction over the last few posts. I followed suit unfortunately though not to his degree of total lack of content:

Shouldnt you be mortifying your sins rather than indulging them ?
But thanks for proving my point about your lack of honesty.

This kind of nastiness on PK's part is standard with him lately and it makes "debate" with him nearly intolerable.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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PaulK
Member
Posts: 14570
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 650 of 662 (835526)
06-24-2018 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 649 by Faith
06-24-2018 9:12 AM


Re: This needs to stop
Faith needs to stop repeating the same old lies and whining when caught at it.
This message is a reply to:
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AdminPhat
Administrator
Posts: 1897
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 651 of 662 (835527)
06-24-2018 9:54 AM


Summations on Motley Flood Topic
Looks like it is time to close that topic. Both of you are guilty, however.

  • Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.
  • Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation.
  • The sincerely held beliefs of other members deserve your respect. Please keep discussion civil. Argue the position, not the person.

  • Replies to this message:
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    Faith
    Member
    Posts: 30252
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 652 of 662 (835529)
    06-24-2018 9:59 AM
    Reply to: Message 651 by AdminPhat
    06-24-2018 9:54 AM


    Re: Summations on Motley Flood Topic
    What am I guilty of? Go read through that sequence of posts. And what PK just said on this thread alone deserves a suspension.

    I don't think going into Summation Mode is going to solve anything. There are other conversations going on.


    This message is a reply to:
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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11655
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.4


    Message 653 of 662 (835534)
    06-24-2018 10:38 AM
    Reply to: Message 652 by Faith
    06-24-2018 9:59 AM


    Re: Summations on Motley Flood Topic
    I read the topic. I stand by my summation. I respect your methodology as much as I respect secular science, but it must be pointed out how the two approaches differ. I believe that the cartoon describes it quite well.

    You have a right to voice your methodology as do your opponents.

    My hope is that everyone gets better at expressing themselves and stops the personal attacks (and reactions to such attacks)

    Hopefully, we here at EvC are learning to coexist. Nobody is being singled out or banned (or even suspended) because we all have earned our place here at EvC. It is unfortunate that you do not have too many other creationists to help you make your case. Usually, I enjoy reading what you have to say.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 652 by Faith, posted 06-24-2018 9:59 AM Faith has not yet responded

      
    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 18004
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 3.1


    Message 654 of 662 (836779)
    07-22-2018 8:39 AM


    Concerns About Thread A Book about the Anti-Trump Conspiracy
    After reading this thread this morning from Message 60 onward I have serious concerns about those stating they will neither consider evidence offered nor offer any evidence of their own nor even educate themselves on the issues. Without specifying from whom or from which posts these quotes originate, I'm very concerned about the following statements. In my opinion participants expressing attitudes like these should not be permitted to post:

    The evidence is everywhere, open your eyes.
    ...
    I'm not going to read your link.
    ...
    Not interested. Maybe later. Maybe not.
    ...
    I'm not keeping up with the issues,...
    ...
    No I'm not going to provide evidence...
    ...
    But all I'm going to say is OPEN YOUR EYES IT'S EVERYWHERE. Unless I feel like digging up some examples some time.
    ...
    The demand for evidence is just a way of calling your opponent a liar.

    Then there are the substance-free personal insults that have no place in any thread at this forum:

    Typical stupid rejoinder. Babyish and stupid.
    ...
    Typical stupid denigrating spin.
    ...
    I know you are a vicious namecaller who has no interest in being reasonable.
    ...
    I do wonder where your heads can be.
    ...
    Obviously the Left has no room for it in their sneering self-righteous arrogance.

    The thread is about Jeanine's Pirro's book Liars Leakers and Liberals: The Case Against the Anti-Trump Conspiracy. The thread's originator should begin talking about what's in the book. So far the originator is avoiding their own topic and being unresponsive to questions about it. When people complain they're instigating insult wars and leveling unsubstantiated charges of bias and abuse, and when people offer evidence and/or make substantive arguments they're ignoring them. The originator's response rate is now below 50%.

    --Percy


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    Faith
    Member
    Posts: 30252
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 655 of 662 (836836)
    07-23-2018 7:42 AM
    Reply to: Message 654 by Percy
    07-22-2018 8:39 AM


    Re: Concerns About Thread A Book about the Anti-Trump Conspiracy
    Guilty as charged. Please act accordingly.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 654 by Percy, posted 07-22-2018 8:39 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11655
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.4


    Message 656 of 662 (836839)
    07-23-2018 8:12 AM
    Reply to: Message 655 by Faith
    07-23-2018 7:42 AM


    Re: Concerns About Thread A Book about the Anti-Trump Conspiracy
    Percy writes:

    The thread's originator should begin talking about what's in the book. So far the originator is avoiding their own topic and being unresponsive to questions about it.


    Faith has already basically answered your question.
    Faith,msg 1 writes:

    I gave up a long time ago saying anything about it here or to anyone except people who share my views.

    Faith is making it plain that she started this topic as a place to voice her views without appeasing the Left through the demand to provide evidence backing the validity of her views.
    Faith writes:

    Guilty as charged. Please act accordingly.

    As the moderator of this thread, I am relaxing my demands to focus solely on the book, as the responses have been more civil of late. If the thread gets out of line, I may close it at times until people simmer down...but you all are doing better so far.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

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    PaulK
    Member
    Posts: 14570
    Joined: 01-10-2003
    Member Rating: 2.1


    (4)
    Message 657 of 662 (836840)
    07-23-2018 8:26 AM
    Reply to: Message 656 by Phat
    07-23-2018 8:12 AM


    Re: Concerns About Thread A Book about the Anti-Trump Conspiracy
    If Faith wishes to voice her views without meaningful discussion she can and should do so on her blog. Not here.

    If she does not want to discuss the book then the thread should never have been posted in the Book Nook.

    If she wants respect for her views, then displays of ignorance, prejudice and hypocrisy are hardly the way to get it.


    This message is a reply to:
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    Faith
    Member
    Posts: 30252
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 658 of 662 (836841)
    07-23-2018 8:34 AM
    Reply to: Message 657 by PaulK
    07-23-2018 8:26 AM


    Re: Concerns About Thread A Book about the Anti-Trump Conspiracy
    I do not want to DEBATE the book. Discussion is something else that hardly evey happens here although supposedly it's what the site wants to encourage.

    As for your usual personal attacks who cares, but I'm asking for the basic kind of respect any human being owes another, I could not care less what you think of me personally, but I do care about basic decency as expressed in a discussion about anything whatever. I don't know why Phat didn't suspend you when he suspended the rest of us.

    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


    This message is a reply to:
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    PaulK
    Member
    Posts: 14570
    Joined: 01-10-2003
    Member Rating: 2.1


    Message 659 of 662 (836842)
    07-23-2018 8:39 AM
    Reply to: Message 658 by Faith
    07-23-2018 8:34 AM


    Re: Concerns About Thread A Book about the Anti-Trump Conspiracy
    quote:

    I do not want to DEBATE the book. Discussion is something else that hardly evey happens here although supposedly it's what the site wants to encourage.

    Plenty of discussion happens here. And the truth of the accusations in the book would seem to be a highly relevant point.

    quote:

    As for your usual personal attacks who cares, but I'm asking for the basic kind of respect any human being owes another, I could not care less what you think of me personally, but I do care about basic decency as expressed in a discussion about anything whatever. I

    And what respect is that ?


    This message is a reply to:
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    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 18004
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 3.1


    (3)
    Message 660 of 662 (836864)
    07-23-2018 2:52 PM
    Reply to: Message 656 by Phat
    07-23-2018 8:12 AM


    Re: Concerns About Thread A Book about the Anti-Trump Conspiracy
    Phat writes:

    Faith is making it plain that she started this topic as a place to voice her views without appeasing the Left through the demand to provide evidence backing the validity of her views.

    Rule 4 from the Forum Guidelines:

    1. Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation. Address rebuttals through the introduction of additional evidence or by enlarging upon the argument. Do not repeat previous points without further elaboration. Avoid bare assertions.

    Should declaring up-front in a thread that one won't be following certain of the Forum Guidelines really absolve one from following those Forum Guidelines? Wouldn't this be a dangerous precedent? Doesn't this open the door to people possibly beginning their threads with a statement like one of these:

    • I won't be following moderator requests.
    • I'll be changing topics whenever I feel the urge.
    • I'll be making all my points via bare link.
    • Instead of making arguments in my own words I'll just be posting lengthy cut-n-pastes.
    • Plagiarism will be my guide in this thread.
    • I will lie and misrepresent whenever I feel like it.
    • I'll be making plenty of baseless accusations against my fellow participants.

    Moderating threads can be a difficult challenge, and not enforcing some of the Forum Guidelines would make the task easier, but it doesn't seem fair to those who *are* following the Forum Guidelines. And maybe it's just me, but I think those guidelines are part of the reason a lot of people are here, especially rule 4.

    I do think it makes sense in the current environment to cut some people some slack (but not total slack) in the interests of keeping discussion going, but what is occurring now doesn't seem like discussion. One side is begging for crumbs of substance. The other side is lambasting those unhappy with Trump while acknowledging they are uninformed and have no interest in supporting their claims nor in listening to the evidence provided by others.

    --Percy

    Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


    This message is a reply to:
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