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Author Topic:   Brexit - Should they stay or should they go?
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1903
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 256 of 279 (836136)
07-11-2018 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by PaulK
07-11-2018 6:14 AM


Re: House of Lords delivers setback to May
Yes, I realise that, but it doesn't seem as if the May Govt. will be in power for much longer.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by PaulK, posted 07-11-2018 6:14 AM PaulK has responded

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Heathen
Member
Posts: 1042
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


(1)
Message 257 of 279 (836138)
07-11-2018 7:28 AM
Reply to: Message 254 by Pressie
07-11-2018 6:05 AM


Re: House of Lords delivers setback to May
Is that a realistic position remembering The Troubles and what would the legality be of such a situation

Absolutely no chance whatsoever, the unionists/loyalists in NI would go completely ballistic if this were to happen.

the "troubles" would seem like a kid's birthday party compared to the hell that would break loose


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PaulK
Member
Posts: 14419
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 258 of 279 (836139)
07-11-2018 7:35 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by Pressie
07-11-2018 6:37 AM


Re: House of Lords delivers setback to May
If the May government goes, and if the new government are prepared to upset the Unionists and if the new government wants a hard Brexit it would still be easier to make special customs arrangements for Northen Ireland.

So, no. I still donít see any real chance of it happening.


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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 726
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 259 of 279 (836143)
07-11-2018 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by PaulK
07-11-2018 7:35 AM


Re: House of Lords delivers setback to May
I honestly don't see the May government going just yet. Brexit negotiations would be thrown for a loop if there was a sudden changing of the guard. It's less than a year to the deadline of the Article 50 announcement. Unless the conservatives have ultimately decided to just throw the proverbial 'F U' to Europe and aim for a hard Brexit. But I can't fathom that the entire conservative party wanting that outcome.
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 14419
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 260 of 279 (836147)
07-11-2018 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Diomedes
07-11-2018 1:02 PM


Re: House of Lords delivers setback to May
Unlike Pressie I donít expect it, even with the wave of rsignations. That said, the hard line Brexiteers will be making trouble and it isnít impossible that May might give up.

(But if they really after a hard Brexit going for ďno dealĒ seems easiest to me. Things are in enough of a mess as it is).


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Tangle
Member
Posts: 6180
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 261 of 279 (836149)
07-11-2018 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by Pressie
07-11-2018 6:05 AM


Re: House of Lords delivers setback to May
Pressie writes:

Is that a realistic position remembering The Troubles and what would the legality be of such a situation?

It's a political impossibility. We went to war with Argentina because an island everone here thought was off Scotland with a couple of hundred Brits on it was invaded and they wanted to reamian British. It would only be possible if the majority in NI voted for it. Even then it would be bloody.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


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 Message 254 by Pressie, posted 07-11-2018 6:05 AM Pressie has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 726
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 262 of 279 (839949)
09-19-2018 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Diomedes
07-11-2018 1:02 PM


Irish border still a quagmire
Was watching Dateline London recently and I see that the Irish border quagmire is still throwing a monkey wrench into Brexit negotiations:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45566205

quote:
Theresa May says the EU must "evolve" its stance on the Irish border as she prepares to make the case for her Brexit plans to other European leaders.

In Salzburg, the PM welcomed the EU's recognition its initial proposal to avoid a hard border in Ireland was "unacceptable".

It comes after EU negotiator Michel Barnier suggested a shift in tone on his controversial "backstop" plan.

Mrs May said her own Chequers plan would ensure "frictionless trade".


She appears to still be pushing the Chequers deal, even though she has gotten massive push back from members of the conservative party. The most vocal being, of course, Boris Johnson.

The clock is ticking here and I am surprised more progress hasn't been made. The Article 50 deadline is only six months away.


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jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 263 of 279 (839954)
09-19-2018 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by Diomedes
09-19-2018 3:44 PM


Re: Irish border still a quagmire
Hasn't Ireland and the Irish Border always been a problem for England?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios † † My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 6180
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 264 of 279 (839962)
09-20-2018 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by jar
09-19-2018 5:19 PM


Re: Irish border still a quagmire
Yeh, Ireland has been a tad troublesome. Unfinished business.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 726
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 265 of 279 (839992)
09-21-2018 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 264 by Tangle
09-20-2018 12:59 AM


Re: Irish border still a quagmire
Now it looks like the EU flat out stated that the Chequers plan won't work:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45586010

quote:
Theresa May's proposed new economic partnership with the EU "will not work", the head of the European Council has said.

Donald Tusk said the plans risked undermining the EU's single market.

He was speaking at the end of an EU summit in Salzburg where leaders of the 27 remaining member states discussed Brexit.

--------

Analysis by BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg
Can the prime minister really cling on to her Chequers plan now?

The EU clearly won't accept it as it stands. Significant chunks of her party won't wear the deal either. The opposition parties won't back her.

Of course there are tactics at play here. One government minister has already suggested that the EU always knows how to overplay their hand.

Sometimes in negotiations, there needs to be a crisis to focus minds.



This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Tangle, posted 09-20-2018 12:59 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Tangle, posted 09-21-2018 1:49 PM Diomedes has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6180
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 266 of 279 (840001)
09-21-2018 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Diomedes
09-21-2018 10:09 AM


Re: Irish border still a quagmire
People always underestimate May; but she's stubborn and persistent.

The EU needs to be careful; one way of ensuring that the UK won't vote to remain (if they get the second chance) is to be the arrogant bullies that most here think they are. We'd rather stick two fingers at them and declare splendid isolation again. Create an offshore finacial state with low taxation and suck cash out of Europe.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Diomedes, posted 09-21-2018 10:09 AM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Diomedes, posted 09-21-2018 2:57 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15403
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 267 of 279 (840002)
09-21-2018 1:58 PM


Britain's "plan' to exit from the EU seems to be something like Quebec's plan to exit from Canada: keep all of the benefits and ditch all of the responsibilities. Hard to get agreement on a plan like that.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by 1.61803, posted 09-26-2018 3:28 PM ringo has responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 726
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 268 of 279 (840004)
09-21-2018 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Tangle
09-21-2018 1:49 PM


Re: Irish border still a quagmire
People always underestimate May; but she's stubborn and persistent.

She definitely seems to be. I would have already caved under the pressure she is under.

The EU needs to be careful; one way of ensuring that the UK won't vote to remain (if they get the second chance) is to be the arrogant bullies that most here think they are.

In all honesty, I haven't been overly impressed with EU bureaucracy on Brexit or many other matters. Brussels comes across as a bunch of aristocrats who seem to be more concerned about their status than formulating good policies. Jean-Claude Juncker honestly sounds like a Bond villain every time he speaks.

Mind you, Boris Johnson and Nigel Farange are not exactly helping matters either.


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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1247
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 269 of 279 (840018)
09-22-2018 12:26 AM


I have always notices that many Irish who lived in U.S. for a long time are confused.
They don't understand that the E.U. member state's free-migration requirement was the ONLY thing allowing free travel between Ireland and North Ireland.

I had to keep repeating it over and over to one guy.


    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1247
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 270 of 279 (840019)
09-22-2018 12:54 AM


On Scotland and the confusing over "nationalism".
Scotland was talking about splitting from the U.K. to stay in the E.U., but it was noticed that a good chunk (like 1/3) in Scotland support BOTH Brexit and the Scottish Nationalist Party, so that made the Pro-E.U. SNP much weaker (too weak) when it came to playing an anti-Brexit hand.

(Like 1/3 of SNP voters also supported Brexit)

It is a contradiction if one understands that the Scottish Nationalist Party is actually anti-nationalist, but not a contradiction to many SNP supporters.

(The SNP confusion is kind of like Gandhi being described as a nationalist even though he was for world government, and kind of like the confusing situation of World War 1 "Arab nationalists" foolishly supporting independence from Turkey ONLY LATER to find out that they weren't for nationalism & crushing anti-immigration borders BUT were simply for independence from single-entity domination)

The British always have had a way of creating lots of confusion due to the resulting endless "nationalism" movements to escape domination (they even "helped" Arabs escape domination from Turkey only to destroy the Middle East with never-ending borders WHICH TURKEY NEVER IMPOSED).

To the U.K., India was allowed to be its full size, when free travel was a one-way street (white British seemingly can go anywhere, but Indians could not), during the Empire. Borders went up as independence was being successfully fought for. (Not just an "Indian" border to separate from Britain, but India was chopped up ruthlessly by the British)

Only when the U.K. gets economic benefits will there be fewer borders and free travel. Otherwise, never-ending borders will be imposed ruthlessly.

This whole Brexit thing was over stopping immigration. The British have always had an anti-immigration mindset, and the E.U. is seen, by many Brits, as a pro-immigration Trojan Horse.

Viktor Orban (leader of Hungary) shut down a university (tied to George Soros) in his country, because Soros has been a promoter of the European Union, which Orban says has been used to "increase immigration". A scheme to Orban. And, yes, his supporters are often open anti-semites who call immigration a Jewish plot.

Brexit is anti-immigration, and it was over immigration. And many Labor supporters were pro Brexit (I read a New York Times article detailing how solidly Labor districts have 1/3 of the Labor supporters also supporting Brexit). And they will tell you it is about immigration.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by caffeine, posted 09-25-2018 10:39 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
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