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Author Topic:   Christianity and the End Times
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 134 of 1748 (835879)
07-03-2018 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by Faith
07-03-2018 10:29 AM


Re: it's in the text
Well I could have guessed you were following a liberal interpretation, juust found the evidence. Perfect example of how liberals mangle the scripture in order ot impose their prejudices on it. this is how you arrive at Greece and not Rome eh?
Your arguments might be a little more persuasive if they were text-based rather than based on slinging around insults. Exactly where is Paul's interpretation unworkable rather than just "liberal"?
And I know that you won't take this advice, but regardless of how convinced you are about the evil of Catholicism, rants about how "vicar" means "anti-Christ" when everyone knows it does not, are not helpful to your case.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Faith, posted 07-03-2018 10:29 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Faith, posted 07-03-2018 11:31 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 137 of 1748 (835883)
07-03-2018 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Faith
07-03-2018 11:31 AM


Re: it's in the text
It would help if I could quote the text though. I'll make a bigger effort.
Please do. It is actually very easy given all of the free Bible test available online.
VICARIVS FILII DEI and how its Roman numerals add up to 666.
That would be superstitious numerology and of course complete hokum. I know this will come across as harsh, but I find crap like this an embarrassment. It makes it appear that Christians are a bunch of idiots who are just as likely to believe fairy tales as the Bible.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Faith, posted 07-03-2018 11:31 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 07-03-2018 12:03 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 223 of 1748 (835990)
07-06-2018 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by PaulK
07-06-2018 9:34 AM


Re: Symbolism isn’t that easy
Then I guess there’s a chance you’ll see it my way.
I don't know much about this topic, so please forgive me if my question is foolish.
Don't most fundies insist that Isaiah is about double fulfillment? Isn't there going to be a great fit to a conventional prophecy (which might not even be prophetic, but instead historical) and then some future meaning in their eyes?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2018 9:34 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2018 11:18 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 305 of 1748 (836152)
07-11-2018 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by Faith
07-11-2018 12:24 AM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
OK, you are of course following the revisuionist modern "scholars" who deny everything traditionalists believe
Really, Faith?
What language do traditionalist believe that Jesus spoke most of the time?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by Faith, posted 07-11-2018 12:24 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by Faith, posted 07-11-2018 2:33 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 324 of 1748 (836189)
07-11-2018 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 306 by Faith
07-11-2018 2:33 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
I don't know what traditionalists believe about that. But if you think Aramaic then you have th assume that's what all the disciples spoke too, and if they wrote in Greek what sense would that make? Perhaps they were all fluently bilingual, but then Jesus would also have been fluently bilingual.
Your accusation about Paul not following tradition on this particular point would seem to be both baseless and ridiculous.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by Faith, posted 07-11-2018 2:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 325 by Faith, posted 07-12-2018 12:15 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 345 of 1748 (836240)
07-12-2018 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 344 by Faith
07-12-2018 7:32 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
Luke is saying he has knowledge worth ADDING to the other accounts, since he's saying the basics of the faith are already known to believers, who include himself and Theophilus to whom he is writing.
This is ridiculous. Luke was not a first hand witness. Everything he writes comes from the account or accounts of someone else That is not the least bit controversial.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by Faith, posted 07-12-2018 7:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 346 by Faith, posted 07-12-2018 8:33 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 347 by Faith, posted 07-12-2018 9:01 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 348 of 1748 (836247)
07-13-2018 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 347 by Faith
07-12-2018 9:01 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
f Luke's information came from other written accounts, unknown to believers why didn't6 he just put those accounts into circulation?
Have you ever written a paper Faith? I find your question quite astounding.
Apparently, none of the sources included the complete story that Luke wanted to tell, and did not describe Jesus from the perspective that Luke undertook to document. His Gospel serves that purpose regardless of what his actual sources were.
Luke almost certainly drew on many sources. I don't think there is any controversy about that whatsoever.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by Faith, posted 07-12-2018 9:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 351 by Faith, posted 07-13-2018 11:29 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 349 of 1748 (836248)
07-13-2018 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 346 by Faith
07-12-2018 8:33 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
Oh it certainly is controversial. He did original research and contributed a lot of information that was not previously written about.
Faith, this statement does not contradict what I said in the least. Original research means consulting sources and accounts. At least some of those sources appear to be in common with the other Gospel authors.
Again, this is not controversial.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by Faith, posted 07-12-2018 8:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 350 by Faith, posted 07-13-2018 11:24 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 352 of 1748 (836270)
07-13-2018 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by Faith
07-13-2018 11:24 AM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
From the context in which I wrote it I obviously excluded his using written sources. They would have to have been unknown to believers because
Your statement is baseless and idiotic. If there were written sources, they were written by believers and accordingly, they could not have been unknown to all believers.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Faith, posted 07-13-2018 11:24 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 353 by Faith, posted 07-13-2018 12:54 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 360 of 1748 (836307)
07-14-2018 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by Faith
07-13-2018 12:54 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
Oh think for a change. He had no reason to write what was already known to believers, all the wriotings he starts out saying were well known.
Your supposition is not correct. There are four Gospels and much overlap in the material and Luke's Gospel was not the first one written. The idea that Luke would only write about what was unknown is demonstrably beyond ridiculous.
Secondly, the fact that there were other writings does not mean that those writings were widely spread or well known. Your argument is not logical.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by Faith, posted 07-13-2018 12:54 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 361 by Faith, posted 07-15-2018 1:33 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 381 of 1748 (836338)
07-15-2018 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 361 by Faith
07-15-2018 1:33 AM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
There's a lot of original material in Luke, have you noticed?
1. That is not the point. The question is whether there is material in there from other sources.
2. Yes, the Gospel does contain original material. Primarily that is Luke's viewpoint.
3. Luke was not a witness, therefore none of the details of any event is original to Luke. It all came from somewhere or somebody else.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Faith, posted 07-15-2018 1:33 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 382 of 1748 (836339)
07-15-2018 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 367 by Faith
07-15-2018 5:21 AM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
The facts themselves wouldn't be a big deal, I wouldn't really care if Luke did happen to be a compilation, I just do not think it is true, for which I've given some good reasons,
You have not given good reasons. You've given silly reasons that are easily rebutted.
and it's offensive that modern scholars are always taking It upon themselves to change everything about the Bible as it had previously been understood.
Tell us what the traditional belief is about Luke's sources. Nobody cares what you believe without looking.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by Faith, posted 07-15-2018 5:21 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 386 by Faith, posted 07-15-2018 4:52 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 394 of 1748 (836361)
07-15-2018 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 386 by Faith
07-15-2018 4:52 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
Nothing in there appears to provide any arguments Luke did not draw on writings. I'll note that quoting authors that throw around "leftist" the same way you do as if that were some kind of argument really are not proving anything except that they are content with ad hominem.
" He certainly HAD read many eyewitness accounts. "
So writings, then.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 386 by Faith, posted 07-15-2018 4:52 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 427 by Faith, posted 07-18-2018 1:24 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 431 of 1748 (836481)
07-18-2018 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 427 by Faith
07-18-2018 1:24 AM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
Leftist is not an ad hominem, it is a worldview, and it surprised me that he used it.
What is being done here is simply labeling a view leftist as if that is all that is needed to discredit it. That is the essence of what an ad hominem argument is. It is not an insult, but an attempt to discredit by applying a label in place of addressing a position on the merits.
And in fact, there is absolutely no attempt to even demonstrate that the criticised viewpoint is "left". It is a viewpoint that differs from that of the author who spits out the label before dismissing it entirely. No points for that.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Faith, posted 07-18-2018 1:24 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 437 by Faith, posted 07-18-2018 8:32 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 484 of 1748 (836615)
07-20-2018 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 482 by Faith
07-19-2018 6:29 PM


You've made it impossible for yourself to have the eternal life you say you want.
I thought it was impossible for a man to affect his own prospects for salvation. At least that's what Calvinist doctrine holds.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by Faith, posted 07-19-2018 6:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 485 by Faith, posted 07-20-2018 2:45 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
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