Christianity and the End Times

But unless you are arguing that your fallen mind is right and God is wrong, your statement is ridiculous. Beyond that, your own arguments in the past have warned that man can do nothing to affect his salvation and that Catholics are wrong to think otherwise.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Let me help you out here. The scripture you quoted is consistent with my beliefs. I'd also add that Christians are charged with trying to lead folks to Christ. That's how I know that Calvinism is a bunch of do-hickey. If Calvinists are correct, then what I think and what I do are irrelevant because not one of our efforts can make a hill of beans differences. And according to what you have espoused, a belief that what a human can do does make a difference is some kind of false pride in our own abilities and works.Well, guess what? Faith without works is dead.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Do we really need to go through the exercise of quoting what Calvin himself said about the doctrine? Again?

As has been shown over and over again, Calvinists themselves espouse what you call here hyperCalvinism. You have in previous conversations confirmed that by labeling actual quotes of Calvinist doctrine as hyperCalvinism. The doctrine that is Calvinism is contradicted by Biblical verses that you yourself have quoted among others. Fortunately, nobody can live in a way that Calvinism requires without doing violence to their Biblical beliefs, and most Christians don't even try to do so. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

I agree because the doctrine of Calvinism is best served by ignoring it completely and by operating as you are charged to by numerous verses in the New Testament. I don't know too many other Christian doctrines best served by acting as if they do not exist, but I'll bet you can show me some.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

I don't have to explain that. The doctrine of predestination is something that most folks to not believe in or even think about. If we did believe in it as a society, then our entire system of responsibility and accountability would be called into serious question. We act as if punishment can really deter people. If the truth is that actually punishment does no such thing, then punishment would be immoral. It would just be revenge. And vengeance belongs to God, not humans. Everyone may have one motivation or another. Yes Christians may be motivated by Christ. Non-Christians may be motivated by nationalism, duty, need for respect, kinship with their fellow man, love, hate, etc. Just what kind of ridiculous question is this? What amount of self-centered thinking could prompt a question like this one which depicts your fellow humans as so inferior to you.Your argument and question is a strong indictment of the idea of predestination. If in fact all of our lives and actions are predestined, it would be necessary for societies function that we ignore that possibility. But for a Christian, doing that makes life a farce in a way that it does not for non-Christians. The Bible tells us that our choices do matter. Jesus tells us that. But the fact that God knows better makes reality a complete lie.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

I have thought about it. What makes you even say that. As I have said repeatedly it is not the fact that we don't know the future as it is that our actions are actually futile that causes the problem.How can you even tell Tangle that he has just made a statement that forfeits his salvation when nothing he does makes a bit of difference? What lesson should he take from such a warning? The combination of predetermination and election from the dawn of time makes all things ultimately futile and thereby in conflict with Jesus message. You can moderate that evil a little by saying that predestination is just foreknowledge of events. I some sources attribute that position to Calvin, but most Calvinist reject such a thing and say that God actually made things that way. I've invested that time already. I am not likely to do it again.

Apparently then, you left your workstation logged in and an idiot snuck into your house and posted this gem using your account. Let me know if you need an actual link.

That is not what you said. I quoted you verbatim. Your post did not contain any additional context that allows interpretation to be what you are saying now. If you had said what you claim, I would not have bothered with this line of discussion. Why you would even bother to lie is something that continues to astonish me.Your actual statement again: You did not say, "if you continue in that vein", or "You'd better change your evil ways", etc.

I quoted you verbatim. My quote included every word that you used. If your Bible quotes were at odds with what you actually said, that certainly would not be the first time that happened this thread. Nor did I suggest that. Your statement but all of that responsibility on Tangle. Your statement was that he had made it impossible to be saved. If there is some meaning of the word impossible other than that saying that an impossible event cannot occur, please point that out.ABE:Or better yet. How about if you take responsibility for your own statements. I certainly don't mind if you retract or correct them. I did not mean that, would be enough.Of course, the problem here is the impact on your other arguments. But in this case, putting things to right might actually help you argue your case.Instead, I see you doubling down. Jumping into the martyr bed with Trump. Not persuasive.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Faith has posted about giggling when folks find out that they are condemned to hell. That's way beyond smug.

I sometimes wonder if dispensationalism was invented solely because some Christiany folks did not like the implications of Chapter 25 of Matthew.

I agree with this line of reasoning, but I'd add a slight twist. Having the power to pre-determine everything does not mean that it would be best to use such power. Reasoned restraint is not weakness.

I wouldn't go so far as the Open Theism argument. I don't see the need to apply any limits to what God can do. But God appears to choose to allow humans to determine at least their earthly destiny and does not appear to pre-determine every flutter of a butterflies wing.

I have met such people. I have directed and have driven them to hear a sermon when they have that desire. Yes, such requests are the exception rather than the rule, as are requests to be taken a laundry mat, to see a basketball game, or to do some work for pay, or to get some Popeye's chicken. But those are all things that homeless folk do indeed ask for.They probably won't ask a total stranger for those things.