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Author Topic:   Christianity and the End Times
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 876 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 535 of 1748 (836927)
07-24-2018 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 528 by Faith
07-24-2018 12:20 AM


Re: Some sources
what HE was doing was preventing it. I don't know why I put it that way, maybe because it didn't seem like he'd ever do anything else, but theoretically he could always change and do something else;
Personally, I was floored to hear you make this comment, since you have been adamant in the past that there is nothing we can personally do to affect our own salvation. We cannot move towards God or salvation unless God moves us to do so. Have you recanted that position and now believe that it is our own actions and deeds that either bring us to salvation or keep us from it?
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 528 by Faith, posted 07-24-2018 12:20 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 539 by Faith, posted 07-24-2018 12:54 PM herebedragons has replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 876 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 538 of 1748 (836930)
07-24-2018 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 536 by NoNukes
07-24-2018 12:35 PM


Re: Some sources
I don't see the connection between dispensationalism and Matthew 25...
maybe you meant something other than dispensationalism?

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 536 by NoNukes, posted 07-24-2018 12:35 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 876 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 541 of 1748 (836939)
07-24-2018 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 539 by Faith
07-24-2018 12:54 PM


Re: Some sources
Exactly. This is why I reject Calvinism. It is contradictory and the premises flip flop back and forth depending on the specific subject. I know you don't see it that way, but if it is basically impossible to describe and to "keep track of the content" maybe the truth of it should be questioned.
For example, "But the fact that God is totally in charge of everything really does not affect what we do at all." - if things can happen apart from God's will, then he really is not in charge of it.
and "In some sense everything we do is "in God's will" anyway. But if anyone wants to be saved nothing is preventing it," - except for "God's will" which is either preventing it or encouraging it.
The idea of election and predestination are really meant to be reassurances to those who have been walking with God for a long time.
I don't think so. We have individualized those passages, which is something the West highly favors - individuality. Try reading those passages and think of them in terms other than referencing individuals, but instead groups (such as The Church) or ideals (such believers were created to do good works).
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 539 by Faith, posted 07-24-2018 12:54 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 543 by Faith, posted 07-24-2018 1:29 PM herebedragons has replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 876 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 546 of 1748 (836945)
07-24-2018 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 543 by Faith
07-24-2018 1:29 PM


Re: Some sources
Nothing happens apart from God's will.
But God does not will that anyone should perish, yet... The logical conclusion of Calvinism is that he does will that some (in fact most people that ever lived) should perish.
Everything we do is in some sense in God's will all the time.
Then why do you consider me to not be a "True Christian" since I am doing God's will by accepting evolution and an old earth? Is it God's will that I be a "false Christian?" Or is my will to accept these things stronger than God's will for me to believe his word? Or am I right? The answer to one of these is "Yes." which is it (in your opinion)?
The contradictions of Calvinism just cannot be reconciled. To do so is simply double-talk.
the problem with rejecting God's sovereignty in salvation is that you make human will stronger than God.
God has constrained his sovereignty to not over step human will. A king can be the sovereign and still allow his subjects freedom to do as they will. Bu some day he will call his subjects to account. See Matthew 25:14-30.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 543 by Faith, posted 07-24-2018 1:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 551 by Faith, posted 07-24-2018 10:27 PM herebedragons has not replied

  
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