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Author Topic:   Christianity and the End Times
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 408 of 1748 (836419)
07-16-2018 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 404 by Phat
07-16-2018 2:30 PM


Re: But you DON't start with the Bible.
Phat writes:
...whereas ringo was so objective that he never allowed faith to grow..
You still have it backwards. There's never an excuse for not being objective. Faith is only a backup plan in case objectivity doesn't produce useful results. It's you believers who are so faithful that you don't allow objectivity to grow.
Phat writes:
he now has to explain the evidence that led him to abandon using faith at all.
Backwards again. The problem is the lack of evidence for your claims. "Communion" with God doesn't make believers better people. If it makes them different at all, they seem to have a tendency to be ornery, arrogant, vindictive, etc. If they're learning something special from God's own lips, it's something I'm glad I don't have.
Phat writes:
Perhaps, though I would add this:
"be skeptical of unbelievers attempting to explain what the Bible actually means".
You should know better than that too by now. Who better to understand what the Bible means than somebody who doesn't swallow hook-line-and-sinker what some goober tells him it means?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by Phat, posted 07-16-2018 2:30 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 420 of 1748 (836458)
07-17-2018 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 418 by Phat
07-17-2018 9:05 AM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
Phat writes:
It would lead more credence if the authors were familiar with Jesus personally and/or alive shortly after His death.
Well, yes, it would, wouldn't it? At least it would add more credence for the credulous. So the authors certainly would have had a motive for claiming/suggesting that they were eyewitnesses.
Phat writes:
Not too many people get boiled in oil or thrown in prison simply for trying to make a buck.
Stop saying that. It's a lie. You've been shown many times.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by Phat, posted 07-17-2018 9:05 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 452 of 1748 (836515)
07-18-2018 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 433 by Phat
07-18-2018 4:48 AM


Re: But you DON't start with the Bible.
Phat writes:
I really don't know if deep down I doubt or not.
I don't think it's even very deep down. It seems pretty clear that you're whistling in the dark.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 433 by Phat, posted 07-18-2018 4:48 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 453 of 1748 (836516)
07-18-2018 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 450 by Phat
07-18-2018 9:54 AM


Re: apologetics versus what is actually written.
Phat writes:
We have been down this rabbit trail before. I will say that God and/or Jesus is knowable and you will ask me how would I ever be able to tell.
And you never answer. It's like claiming you can bake a cake; until you actually bake one, nobody is going to believe you can do it - and it's going to be hard to believe anything else you say too.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 450 by Phat, posted 07-18-2018 9:54 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 456 of 1748 (836524)
07-18-2018 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 455 by Phat
07-18-2018 2:15 PM


Re: apologetics versus what is actually written.
Phat writes:
You guys may deny it but you want for folks to have to do it themselves...
Why do you keep posting the same nonsense over and over again? We DO have to do it ourselves. Even Jesus understood that. Why do you work so hard at defying what He said?
Phat writes:
... and would laugh at a God Who helped you.
I'd fall out of my chair in surprise.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 455 by Phat, posted 07-18-2018 2:15 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 470 of 1748 (836559)
07-19-2018 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 469 by Phat
07-19-2018 11:35 AM


Re: Claims of special states
Phat writes:
well, for one thing, you could talk with God every day without feeling weird or delusional.
Or you could talk to Loki every day without feeling weird or delusional. But I think even you would agree that if you talked to Loki every day, you would BE weird and delusional.
Phat writes:
You may find that you get answers sometimes too.
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 469 by Phat, posted 07-19-2018 11:35 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 473 of 1748 (836568)
07-19-2018 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 472 by Stile
07-19-2018 11:58 AM


Re: Claims of special states
Stile writes:
The facts show us that any "answers" that believers get lead to a life of being average.
Maybe they need God to lift them up to average.
After all, we have schools to produce average students. Everybody can't be above average.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 472 by Stile, posted 07-19-2018 11:58 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 474 by jar, posted 07-19-2018 12:28 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 483 of 1748 (836610)
07-20-2018 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 482 by Faith
07-19-2018 6:29 PM


Faith writes:
"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life...."
"... ye have not the love of God in you."
Sounds like John is talking to you.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by Faith, posted 07-19-2018 6:29 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 503 of 1748 (836705)
07-21-2018 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 498 by Faith
07-21-2018 8:50 AM


Faith writes:
Since you can't know what is predestinated for you all you can do is what you would do anyway. In other words it makes absolutely no difference to one's daily life.
That almost stuck to the wall. So you're saying that the way you live your life doesn't matter whether there's a God or not.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 498 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 8:50 AM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 509 of 1748 (836788)
07-22-2018 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 506 by Phat
07-22-2018 10:10 AM


Re: Marketing The Living God
Phat writes:
The emphasis is that apart from remaining in communion with Jesus nothing you do will be successful.
Wouldn't "being in communion" include doing what He told you to do - e.g. in Matthew 25? Didn't you notice the similarity between throwing the useless branches into the fire (John) and throwing the useless goats into everlasting fire (Matthew)?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 506 by Phat, posted 07-22-2018 10:10 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 523 of 1748 (836885)
07-23-2018 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 521 by Faith
07-23-2018 6:18 PM


Re: Some sources
Faith writes:
Where did I say Tangle forfeited his salvation? I've said over and over that he can still be saved.
You must be a Reform Calvinist.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 521 by Faith, posted 07-23-2018 6:18 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 537 of 1748 (836929)
07-24-2018 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 534 by NoNukes
07-24-2018 12:32 PM


Re: Some sources
NoNukes writes:
Faith has posted about giggling when folks find out that they are condemned to hell.
But she feels bad about gloating. God forgives her for gloating and then she goes and gloats some more.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 534 by NoNukes, posted 07-24-2018 12:32 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 540 of 1748 (836936)
07-24-2018 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 539 by Faith
07-24-2018 12:54 PM


Re: Some sources
Faith writes:
The idea of election and predestination are really meant to be reassurances to those who have been walking with God for a long time.
Yes, it's like whistling in the dark. It's to reassure yourself that you're okay even if in reality you're not. It's avoidance.
Faith writes:
As an intellectual subject it's just too confusing....
Nonsense often is confusing.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 539 by Faith, posted 07-24-2018 12:54 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 545 of 1748 (836944)
07-24-2018 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 544 by Phat
07-24-2018 1:31 PM


Re: Wandering around asking Why and How?
Phat writes:
I would defend the change I experienced though acknowledging that it is far from complete
But you don't defend it. All you ever say is, "I believe." That's not a defense. You might as well defend your country by standing still and letting your enemies shoot at you.
If there really was a change, why would it not be visible to people around you? Why would a change that is only noticeable to you not be just in your own mind? You can't just hand-wave away the concept of evidence forever. In all honesty, don't you eventually have to concede that the evidence is right and your belief is wrong?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 544 by Phat, posted 07-24-2018 1:31 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 548 by Phat, posted 07-24-2018 4:26 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 549 of 1748 (836949)
07-24-2018 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 548 by Phat
07-24-2018 4:26 PM


Re: Wandering around asking Why and How?
Phat writes:
... If evidence were Gods method, would not people be virtually forced to believe?
Evidence is our method - the human method. It's what frees us from belief.
Phat writes:
Only if evidence quenches belief.
It does.
Phat writes:
In my opinion they are not mutually exclusive. A lot also depends on how open a person is to new experience.
If there is evidence, there is no excuse for belief. So I would say that they are mutually exclusive.
Phat writes:
Many of you who rejected religion did not decide simply on lack of evidence for God.
It's true that if I thought your God was real I would still reject Him. He's no more appealing than a sharp stick in the eye. I don't know why you assume that believing in His existence would automatically lead to acceptance.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 548 by Phat, posted 07-24-2018 4:26 PM Phat has not replied

  
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