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Author | Topic: Christianity and the End Times | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You still have it backwards. There's never an excuse for not being objective. Faith is only a backup plan in case objectivity doesn't produce useful results. It's you believers who are so faithful that you don't allow objectivity to grow.
...whereas ringo was so objective that he never allowed faith to grow.. Phat writes:
Backwards again. The problem is the lack of evidence for your claims. "Communion" with God doesn't make believers better people. If it makes them different at all, they seem to have a tendency to be ornery, arrogant, vindictive, etc. If they're learning something special from God's own lips, it's something I'm glad I don't have.
he now has to explain the evidence that led him to abandon using faith at all. Phat writes:
You should know better than that too by now. Who better to understand what the Bible means than somebody who doesn't swallow hook-line-and-sinker what some goober tells him it means? Perhaps, though I would add this:"be skeptical of unbelievers attempting to explain what the Bible actually means". And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Well, yes, it would, wouldn't it? At least it would add more credence for the credulous. So the authors certainly would have had a motive for claiming/suggesting that they were eyewitnesses.
It would lead more credence if the authors were familiar with Jesus personally and/or alive shortly after His death. Phat writes:
Stop saying that. It's a lie. You've been shown many times. Not too many people get boiled in oil or thrown in prison simply for trying to make a buck.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I don't think it's even very deep down. It seems pretty clear that you're whistling in the dark. I really don't know if deep down I doubt or not.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And you never answer. It's like claiming you can bake a cake; until you actually bake one, nobody is going to believe you can do it - and it's going to be hard to believe anything else you say too. We have been down this rabbit trail before. I will say that God and/or Jesus is knowable and you will ask me how would I ever be able to tell.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Why do you keep posting the same nonsense over and over again? We DO have to do it ourselves. Even Jesus understood that. Why do you work so hard at defying what He said?
You guys may deny it but you want for folks to have to do it themselves... Phat writes:
I'd fall out of my chair in surprise. ... and would laugh at a God Who helped you.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Or you could talk to Loki every day without feeling weird or delusional. But I think even you would agree that if you talked to Loki every day, you would BE weird and delusional.
well, for one thing, you could talk with God every day without feeling weird or delusional. Phat writes:
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them. You may find that you get answers sometimes too.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Stile writes:
Maybe they need God to lift them up to average. The facts show us that any "answers" that believers get lead to a life of being average. After all, we have schools to produce average students. Everybody can't be above average.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Sounds like John is talking to you. "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life...." "... ye have not the love of God in you."And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
That almost stuck to the wall. So you're saying that the way you live your life doesn't matter whether there's a God or not. Since you can't know what is predestinated for you all you can do is what you would do anyway. In other words it makes absolutely no difference to one's daily life.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Wouldn't "being in communion" include doing what He told you to do - e.g. in Matthew 25? Didn't you notice the similarity between throwing the useless branches into the fire (John) and throwing the useless goats into everlasting fire (Matthew)? The emphasis is that apart from remaining in communion with Jesus nothing you do will be successful.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
You must be a Reform Calvinist. Where did I say Tangle forfeited his salvation? I've said over and over that he can still be saved.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
NoNukes writes:
But she feels bad about gloating. God forgives her for gloating and then she goes and gloats some more. Faith has posted about giggling when folks find out that they are condemned to hell.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Yes, it's like whistling in the dark. It's to reassure yourself that you're okay even if in reality you're not. It's avoidance.
The idea of election and predestination are really meant to be reassurances to those who have been walking with God for a long time. Faith writes:
Nonsense often is confusing. As an intellectual subject it's just too confusing....And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
But you don't defend it. All you ever say is, "I believe." That's not a defense. You might as well defend your country by standing still and letting your enemies shoot at you. I would defend the change I experienced though acknowledging that it is far from complete If there really was a change, why would it not be visible to people around you? Why would a change that is only noticeable to you not be just in your own mind? You can't just hand-wave away the concept of evidence forever. In all honesty, don't you eventually have to concede that the evidence is right and your belief is wrong?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Evidence is our method - the human method. It's what frees us from belief.
... If evidence were Gods method, would not people be virtually forced to believe? Phat writes:
It does.
Only if evidence quenches belief. Phat writes:
If there is evidence, there is no excuse for belief. So I would say that they are mutually exclusive.
In my opinion they are not mutually exclusive. A lot also depends on how open a person is to new experience. Phat writes:
It's true that if I thought your God was real I would still reject Him. He's no more appealing than a sharp stick in the eye. I don't know why you assume that believing in His existence would automatically lead to acceptance. Many of you who rejected religion did not decide simply on lack of evidence for God.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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