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Author | Topic: Christianity and the End Times | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Do you realize what you're saying? God is a product of our imaginations.
But the reality is that only by our thinking/imagining can we even be able to approach the GOD Who is. Phat writes:
That's like asking if we have an alternative to food. No. There is none. Do you have any better suggestions for believers...apart from your rant against superstition and appeal to logic?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
On the contray, if we trust our own imaginations, we're not being honest. We humans are social for a reason - our individual capabilities are limited and our individual minds are notoriously unreliable. The only thing worse than trusting your own imagination is trusting some nut like Jim Jones or Oral Roberts. You're better off trusting the people who disagree with you.
If we limit our understanding of God to what others have said or written, we are not being entirely honest with ourselves regarding our belief. Phat writes:
That might explain why you have no understanding of God. What I would say is that our understanding of God is a synthesis of our conscience and our imagination.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Hmmmm.don't pay jar any mind, Faith. he uses "pieces parts" out of context to make his lesson focus on the god he chooses to present to his students.Phat writes:
This sort of thing is beneath you. Please don't do it again. Have you ever read the Bible, jar?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Mocking somebody's posting style is in the backyard of ad hominem.
And yet jar does it all the time. Is it beneath him? Phat writes:
If Faith's position was defensible, you'd be defending it instead of lashing out at people who point out where she's wrong. I'm just defending Faith....And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
... when times get extremely tough and the solutions get scarce people will always turn to belief.Policeman: We're here to evacuate you because of the flood.
Except that it was us who sent the policeman and the boat and the helicopter.Lady: God will protect me. Man in a boat: We're here to evacuate you. Lady: God will protect me. Man in a helicopter: We're here to evacuate you. Lady: God will protect me. ... Dead lady (to God): But... but... but... I thought you were going to protect me. God: I sent you a policeman, I sent you a boat, I sent you a helicopter.... And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Humans help each other. Ants help each other. The equation works out the same without God in it.
God uses humans to help each other. Phat writes:
Why didn't your God teach that man to fish yesterday? Why do I still have to help him today? Again, the term "God" doesn't seem to be in the equation at all.
But surely God does not use you simply to give a man change for an afternoon drink. God would more likely give the man the ability to fish rather than simply handing over the spare change to keep him in bondage. Phat writes:
Yes we are. I can see that you will oppose it but we will still do it.
But in an end times scenario, nobody in the Western world is going to share their own diminishing resources simply so that others can come up to the diminished level the West is adjusting to. Phat writes:
Maybe you should throw that "end times" scenario away and give reality a chance.
My observation is that in an end times scenario, the middle is already being crushed, the bottom sees an opportunity to move up, and the rich still hold all the guns and gold (and military and legal) at their disposal. Phat writes:
I don't preach to the homeless at all. If he asks me for a sermon, I can direct him to one. So far, I've never met a homeless person who wanted one. Try preaching to a newly homeless guy that he still has it better than 1/2 the world!And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
That's old news. I've been hearing it regurgitated since the 1970s. He refers to the emperors of the Holy Roman Empire, to the titles based on the word "Caesar" as in "Kaiser" as I mentioned in Message 88 and even to the Roman Catholic Church as continuing it which I've also mentioned. He talks about the European nations that sent out explorers and established colonies all over the world.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
I found it straw-grasping then and now. I find it quite compelling no matter how old it is.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
I've only ever heard that question asked as a joke - i.e. who would be silly enough to think America was mentioned in the Bible? In the history of the world, America is barely a footnote. For me this answered the question people often ask these days: where is America in the scripture?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hubris.
And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And it's hubris to think that any prophecy in the Bible is directed at us today. I would argue that hubris is the primary reason that America will be judged.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
If He has a message for us, why would He give it to somebody 2000 years ago? If the end is tomorrow, wouldn't it make more sense to send out a Testament 3.0 today?
Why is it hubris to imagine/believe in a God who is concerned about today's people?Phat writes:
Nobody thinks that. I've told you so a dozen times. I think it is hubris to believe that humanity must succeed.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
jar writes:
Yes, we should have a better chance of success if we hope for success than if we look forward to destruction. But if we can ignore the religious nutjobs and discount the idiots who support faith based and fantasy over reality thinking we sure would have a better chance.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You've never stopped pulling the trigger - but it seldom has anything to do with saving yourselves from poverty. If we find ourselves threatened to be relegated to economic poverty, we may well pull a trigger or two.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
It isn't about "not wanting to listen". When Matthew and Luke compare the end times to the days of Noah, they're talking about eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, buying, selling, planting, building - business as usual. In Genesis, the other people didn't get any warning so not wanting to listen doesn't enter into it. Of course what I find is that nobody wants to listen, just as "in the days of Noah."And our geese will blot out the sun.
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