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Author Topic:   Evangelical Switch from Pro-choice to Anti-abortion
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 151 of 441 (837381)
07-31-2018 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Faith
07-29-2018 11:48 AM


Re: If abortion is understood to be ending a human life, THEN we can talk alternatives
Faith writes:
Although I think abortion is killing a human life, I don't want to criminalize it, I want to educate people to see it as killing a human life and phase it out rather than making it a crime and forbidding it.
You said "better solutions." What are your "better solutions?" Can I assume they all include carrying the baby to full term?
The biggest problem I see is that it continues to be rationalized away as just s "process" or a nonliving "piece of tissue" or some such,...
But it *is* a process.
It certainly isn't a "nonliving piece of tissue," and no one has called it that. You're raising straw men again. What I think you meant to say is that people are rationalizing it away as a not-yet-fully-a-human-being piece of tissue. You think it a human being at conception because it will eventually become a human being, but that's poor reasoning. It is not yet what it will eventually become. You seem to have forgotten your promotion of Tangle's position that it is a potential human being.
You and Tangle are both refusing to recognize the uncertainties. You're both declaring that there are definite answers to what at heart are unanswerable questions. When do hills become mountains. When do harbors become seas? When does a fetus become a human being? What should be clear to everyone, but apparently isn't, is that no one knows the answers to these questions because they don't have answers. What such questions tell us is that not all questions have answers.
...and that an organization like Planned Parenthood fights the attempts by Pro-Life advocates to make the pregnant woman aware of it as a developing human being.
This is untrue. I can repeat this link to a webpage at the Planned Parenthood website as often as you ignore it: Learn More About Pregnancy
It is the propaganda that says it is not a living human being that feeds the abortion industry,...
Anyone can make unsupported assertions. I could say that it is the propaganda that says a fetus is a human being from conception that feeds the anti-abortion industry. See how easy that is? You don't want to have a discussion. You just want to declare your supposed "facts" at people.
...so if that is countered I think we'd have a lot fewer abortions, especially if services to help women in all their needs through a pregnancy was the main offering to pregnant women instead of abortion.
To the extent that you Trump supporters don't take health care away from people who can't afford it, all the services to help women through pregnancy should be available to everyone. Every OB/GYN is fully capable of addressing pregnancy needs, including those at Planned Parenthood who attempts to provide lower rates as well as advice on how to obtain necessary services when they cost too much, usually because the patient has no insurance.
Lying about Planned Parenthood won't get you anywhere when the truth is readily available.
Although I oppose abortion for all the reasons I've been giving, if you really want to offer a CHOICE you have to make it plain that the choice involves ending a human life...
Is it a human life? A potential human life? A not-yet-human life? A not yet sustainable life? Pre-human life? A fetus?
...even while continuing to offer abortion as a choice. There are certainly problems with this as a solution too but there are problems with all possible solutions and this is the one at the moment that I'd propose.
Yes, of course you'd propose a solution that declares the truth as you see it and ignores the truth as others see it.
It puts the decision in the hands of the woman...
After she's been subjected to your propaganda.
...but after arming her with facts...
You only want to consider facts that you decide are facts while ignoring facts that others think are facts, and while also ignoring that many of your facts are not facts at all but just opinion.
...that have previously been kept from her by the abortion industry.
You're being lied to. Planned Parenthood is not keeping this information from women. It's right on their website. Check out What happens in the third month of pregnancy?, which includes that 12-week point you keep mentioning.
It is easy to show that a developing fetus is truly human,...
Saying this over and over again doesn't make it true.
...we have the means to show that now.
But that's all you ever do, is talk about how you can show the fetus is human. You never actually go ahead and actually show the fetus is human.
Let her become aware of the truth about that.
Hopefully you're now aware of how much truthful and accurate information Planned Parenthood provides.
Concerning the actual topic, how do you explain the evangelical flip on abortion?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Faith, posted 07-29-2018 11:48 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Faith, posted 07-31-2018 9:54 AM Percy has replied
 Message 180 by Tangle, posted 08-01-2018 4:37 PM Percy has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 152 of 441 (837382)
07-31-2018 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Faith
07-31-2018 9:25 AM


Re: Just a few more facts.
Faith writes:
Why are you such a word twisting sophist? The law is what forces Christians to treat gay marriage as legitimate. Stop twisting things.
No again that is not true. It tells the baker to bake cakes or the florist to sell flowers. Whether the wedding cake is for a mixed sex marriage or a prop for a photo shoot or a same sex marriage is irrelevant. What the baker thinks about someone else marriage is irrelevant. What "God's Law" is is irrelevant. This is the US thank God!
They are free to think that the marriage is not legitimate.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Faith, posted 07-31-2018 9:25 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Faith, posted 07-31-2018 9:57 AM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 153 of 441 (837384)
07-31-2018 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by Percy
07-31-2018 9:31 AM


Re: If abortion is understood to be ending a human life, THEN we can talk alternatives
I already many times described the better solutions as providing for the woman's needs during pregnancy and birth, explaining options for adotion or keeping it herself, and all kinds of other services that are now provided by many churches that could be expanded and emphasized instead of the current emphasis on abortion that also denies the woman the basic information about the living human being in her womb.
It's only a "process" the same way any growing child is a process. The word is meaningless and just a way to distance us from the fact of its being a living humaqn being.
Yes there are no real "uncertainties" or "unanswerable questions" when you face the fact that it is a living developing human being. That fact has a way of ending all those manufactured doubts. They are ALL a product of not seeing the fetus as a human being.
If the problem is "when does a fetus become a human being" it is NOT clear that there are no answers: I've answered that in terms of its genetic constitution and the fact that if nothing interferes it will inexorably grow into a full human being from conception. Obviously you aren't happy with that definition so what is yours? I asked Stile that too. Where do YOU want to draw the line before which it is not human and after which it is?
I've been giving actual OBJECTIVE reasons why it is a human being from conception, starting with its genetic constitution: the DNA defines it. It's all in place, and the fact that if nothing interferes WE ALL KNOW it will grow into a full human being and to deny this is to engage in self-deception. THIS IS OBJECTIVE FACT.
But if YOU want to define things differently go ahead. Your problem is that you have no OBJECTIVE way to do that, all you have is how you feel about it at different stages. If you want to draw lines between pre-human and potential human and so on, go ahead. Let's see your reasoning. If you want to define it on that basis you can do that, but it isn't an objective standard.
There IS no "anti-abortion industry," nobody is making money off of fighting abortion, it costs us money, it requires donations and a lot of unpaid volunteers. They usually maintain a house where pregnant girls and women can live during the pregnancy, they provide help with schooling and qualifying for work, getting welfare funding when possible, and making decisions about their future in general whether they keep or give up the baby, and more than that. The one in my area is supported by all the local churches.
I have not lied about Planned Parenthood and you don't say how I have. They DO work to prevent the pregnant woman from seeing the evidence that she is carrying a human being rather than a piece of tissue or whatnot. Why else do they get so upset when pro-lifers gather outside with the intention of giving their clients that information?
WHAT I MEANT ABOUT SHOWING THAT THE FETUS IS HUMAN, and in fact have said many times already so don't accuse me of failing to show it, IS THAT WE CAN SEE IT IS HUMAN ON THE ULTRASOUND AT TWELVE WEEKS. IT IS FULLY HUMAN, IT IS ALIVE, IT LOOKS HUMAN AND IT ACTS HUMAN.
Oh blah blah blah to all your twistings of my motivations. Try arguing fairly.
How do I explain the evangelical flip? I think they Got Real. I didn't know they had denied the humanness of the fetus before, but that certainly needed to be corrected.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Percy, posted 07-31-2018 9:31 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Percy, posted 07-31-2018 5:48 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 154 of 441 (837385)
07-31-2018 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by jar
07-31-2018 9:41 AM


They are free to think that the marriage is not legitimate.
THAT IS A BALD-FACED STUPID LIE WHEN WE KNOW CHRISTIANS ARE PUNISHED FOR REFUSING TO RECOGNIZE GAY MARRIAGE BY REFUSING TO SERVE A GAY WEDDING. STOP WITH THE LYING TWISTING SOPHISTRY!
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by jar, posted 07-31-2018 9:41 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by jar, posted 07-31-2018 12:22 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 155 of 441 (837388)
07-31-2018 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Faith
07-31-2018 9:57 AM


Faith writes:
THAT IS A BALD-FACED STUPID LIE WHEN WE KNOW CHRISTIANS ARE PUNISHED FOR REFUSING TO RECOGNIZE GAY MARRIAGE BY REFUSING TO SERVE A GAY WEDDING. STOP WITH THE LYING TWISTING SOPHISTRY!
They are not punished for refusing to recognize a gay wedding as valid but only for refusing to bake a cake, regardless of the reason.
If they bake the cake and tell the buyers "You know, I still don't recognize your marriage as legitimate>" then all would be fine. The bakers would still be ignorant bigots but would not be criminals.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Faith, posted 07-31-2018 9:57 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Faith, posted 07-31-2018 3:09 PM jar has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 156 of 441 (837389)
07-31-2018 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Faith
07-31-2018 8:53 AM


Re: Just a few more facts.
Faith writes:
And there is no doubt that the fetus is a living human being by all the evidence I've given.
The evidence you've given is that even you don't believe the fetus is fully human.
Rhetoric can say that "all men are created equal" but as long as some are held as slaves, it is clear that that is not the real belief. And rhetoric can say that the fetus is fully human but that is not the real belief unless you advocate treating it like a fully human being - and you don't.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Faith, posted 07-31-2018 8:53 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Faith, posted 07-31-2018 3:13 PM ringo has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 157 of 441 (837393)
07-31-2018 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Tangle
07-29-2018 5:13 PM


Re: Just a few more facts.
Tangle writes:
And I think you’re avoiding thinking about what you might feel about it. We’re human, our feelings on things that are human and do not easily give in to rational analysis like this, are important.
I think you may be projecting your own feelings onto others. Sure, we're human, but we're not uniform or homogenous. Is it so hard for you to accept that not everyone feels as you do?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Tangle, posted 07-29-2018 5:13 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Faith, posted 07-31-2018 3:25 PM Percy has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 158 of 441 (837394)
07-31-2018 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by jar
07-31-2018 12:22 PM


That is not true.; They are specifically charged with discrimination.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by jar, posted 07-31-2018 12:22 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by jar, posted 07-31-2018 3:55 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 159 of 441 (837396)
07-31-2018 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by ringo
07-31-2018 12:25 PM


Re: Just a few more facts.
;
The evidence you've given is that even you don't believe the fetus is fully human.
I have no idea where you are getting this idea but it must be some version of the usual EVC hairsplitting mania and utterly meaningless. Just read what I've actually said and stop putting words in my mouth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by ringo, posted 07-31-2018 12:25 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by ringo, posted 08-01-2018 1:14 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 160 of 441 (837398)
07-31-2018 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Percy
07-31-2018 3:03 PM


Re: Just a few more facts.
I'd guess you are avoiding thinking about how it probably really is a human being so until you see it that way you aren't going to have any definite feelings about it. The3 most frequent situation is that we all convince ourselves it's not a human being to justify abortion, a "woman's right" or however you think of it, but something suddenly makes the person aware that it really really is a human being and then you have the feelings appropriate to that. Although I had a dream that it was a child it didn't affect my feelings, I just thought it was interesting, but much later when a saw a pro-life film that SHOWED me it is a human being I couldn't stop ;crying for days.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Percy, posted 07-31-2018 3:03 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Percy, posted 07-31-2018 6:05 PM Faith has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 161 of 441 (837399)
07-31-2018 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Faith
07-30-2018 9:05 PM


Re: Just a few more facts.
Faith writes:
What I said to Stile is my answer to you too. I think it all comes down to recognizing the growing fetus as a human being, which I think is recognized at least by the fact that as long as nothing interferes it will grow to be a human being.
Your argument doesn't hold up. Things on their way to being something are not already that something. A caterpillar (a moth larvae) is not a moth. A baby, which grows into an adult, is not an adult.
You can declare that a newly fertilized egg is a human being, but that's just your opinion, and it isn't the same answer as evangelicals of a few generations ago.
I don't want to split hairs about any of these things.
Of course not. Looking at the details might lead you to question what you believe.
"Healthy" means healthy enough to grow into a recognizable human being.
But wouldn't your definition mean that a baby with severe enough birth defects isn't human? You think you're in simple territory, but you're not.
We all have some sort of health problems but they don't keep us from being human.
We've all been born, too, making the question of whether we're human moot.
Are we human after we're dust? I think you could say we were human. Were we human before we're born, and if so when did we become human? That's a more difficult question, and I don't have an answer. I don't think there is a definite answer, though I know many people believe there is and that they know what it is.
It's a simple point: we all know if it's healthy and nothing interferes with its development it will become a recognizable human being and that's a major criterion for defining it as a human being from conception.
You're making things up as you go along.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Faith, posted 07-30-2018 9:05 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 162 of 441 (837401)
07-31-2018 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Faith
07-31-2018 3:09 PM


Faith writes:
That is not true.; They are specifically charged with discrimination.
Exactly. They are not charged with failure to consider a gay marriage as legitimate.
They remain ignorant bigot criminals.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Faith, posted 07-31-2018 3:09 PM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 163 of 441 (837404)
07-31-2018 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Faith
07-31-2018 9:54 AM


Re: If abortion is understood to be ending a human life, THEN we can talk alternatives
Faith writes:
I already many times described the better solutions as providing for the woman's needs during pregnancy and birth, explaining options for adoption or keeping it herself, and all kinds of other services that are now provided by many churches that could be expanded and emphasized instead of the current emphasis on abortion that also denies the woman the basic information about the living human being in her womb.
I just explained how you are wrong about Planned Parenthood, and you ignored it. Here are links to pages at Planned Parenthood that you're pretending aren't there. Two of these I provided in the message you're replying to, and I also added a link to their page on adoption:
Moving on:
It's only a "process" the same way any growing child is a process. The word is meaningless and just a way to distance us from the fact of its being a living human being.
You keep declaring that a zygote is a living human being without supporting your position. You might believe this, but it's only your subjective opinion and not a fact.
Yes there are no real "uncertainties" or "unanswerable questions" when you face the fact that it is a living developing human being. That fact has a way of ending all those manufactured doubts. They are ALL a product of not seeing the fetus as a human being.
Your opinion is not fact. This is the problem you have in every thread. You keep thinking your opinions are facts. When told you're wrong you claim you've proved it. When asked where you proved it you can only point to where you expressed your opinion.
If the problem is "when does a fetus become a human being" it is NOT clear that there are no answers: I've answered that in terms of its genetic constitution and the fact that if nothing interferes it will inexorably grow into a full human being from conception. Obviously you aren't happy with that definition so what is yours? I asked Stile that too. Where do YOU want to draw the line before which it is not human and after which it is?
When I called the questions unanswerable I didn't mean that there aren't people like yourself falsely claiming that they have the answers. I can't answer your question because for me it is unanswerable.
I've been giving actual OBJECTIVE reasons why it is a human being from conception, starting with its genetic constitution: the DNA defines it.
The DNA only defines the species the cell represents. Every cell from the human body has the same DNA (not counting gametes), but no one would take one of those cells and call it a human being.
It's all in place, and the fact that if nothing interferes WE ALL KNOW it will grow into a full human being and to deny this is to engage in self-deception. THIS IS OBJECTIVE FACT.
You've said this before, and were told at the time that no one is disputing facts of biology. That's still true.
But if YOU want to define things differently go ahead.
I'm not defining things differently. I have mostly questions, few answers. It is you who is declaring definitions and declaring your opinions to be fact.
Your problem is that you have no OBJECTIVE way to do that, all you have is how you feel about it at different stages.
You're way out in left field. Again, I'm not making any claims, only asking questions that do not appear to have any definite answers.
If you want to draw lines between pre-human and potential human and so on, go ahead.
But I've explicitly said I'm not trying to do that. I've only posed questions that I believe are unanswerable, so it makes no sense to accuse me of trying to nail down dividing lines.
Let's see your reasoning.
My reasoning about what?
If you want to define it on that basis you can do that, but it isn't an objective standard.
I haven't defined anything on any basis. I'm not trying to establish any objective standard because I don't believe one is possible.
Perhaps the reason nothing you're saying is making any sense is because you're not quoting anything from my post. Maybe if I knew exactly what I said that you're replying to then I could make better sense of what you're saying. Quote what I say next time.
There IS no "anti-abortion industry, nobody is making money off of fighting abortion, it costs us money, it requires donations and a lot of unpaid volunteers. They usually maintain a house where pregnant girls and women can live during the pregnancy, they provide help with schooling and qualifying for work, getting welfare funding when possible, and making decisions about their future in general whether they keep or give up the baby, and more than that. The one in my area is supported by all the local churches.
I only said industry because I was mimicking your sentence. Maybe I should have said "anti-abortion efforts." I think the work these people do is laudable.
I have not lied about Planned Parenthood and you don't say how I have.
Sometimes it's like you can't read. I've explained clearly multiple times how what you've been saying about Planned Parenthood is untrue. You said, "Planned Parenthood fights the attempts by Pro-Life advocates to make the pregnant woman aware of it as a developing human being," and I pointed you to webpages at Planned Parenthood that clearly explain fetal development. See the links I listed up above or just browse around their website. If you look at What happens in the second month of pregnancy? you'll see that it says things like "A very basic beating heart and circulatory system develop" and "External ears, eyes, eyelids, liver, and upper lip begin forming."
So Planned Parenthood is very clearly describing the process of development.
The Planned Parenthood website also provides some basic definitions that we should probably begin using, and I checked Wikipedia, too. When a sperm and egg join it is called a zygote. The ball of cells that form within a few days is called a blastocyst, which is what implants on the uterine wall. The blastocyst becomes an embryo around the 6th week. The embryo becomes a fetus around the 10th week.
They DO work to prevent the pregnant woman from seeing the evidence that she is carrying a human being rather than a piece of tissue or whatnot.
What evidence is there that it is already a human being? You sure haven't provided any.
Why else do they get so upset when pro-lifers gather outside with the intention of giving their clients that information?
Why would Planned Parenthood be upset by people providing information? I can imagine they'd be concerned if anti-abortion demonstrators harassed their clients.
WHAT I MEANT ABOUT SHOWING THAT THE FETUS IS HUMAN, and in fact have said many times already so don't accuse me of failing to show it,...
You seem unable to discern that there is a significant difference between saying something is so and showing that it is so. So far you have only said it and never shown it.
...IS THAT WE CAN SEE IT IS HUMAN ON THE ULTRASOUND AT TWELVE WEEKS. IT IS FULLY HUMAN, IT IS ALIVE, IT LOOKS HUMAN AND IT ACTS HUMAN.
No one denies that you can tell it is a human fetus.
Oh blah blah blah to all your twistings of my motivations. Try arguing fairly.
You quoted nothing from my message. I have no idea what you're responding to. I'm looking at my message right now and cannot see where I'm addressing your motivations, let alone twisting them.
Could you just stick to the subject and leave the complaining out? It has no place here or in any thread except Report Discussion Problems Here 4.0.
How do I explain the evangelical flip? I think they Got Real. I didn't know they had denied the humanness of the fetus before, but that certainly needed to be corrected.
How do you know whether evangelicals were wrong then or now? You've offered only opinion in support of your own view.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Faith, posted 07-31-2018 9:54 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Faith, posted 07-31-2018 8:17 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 164 of 441 (837405)
07-31-2018 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by Faith
07-31-2018 3:25 PM


Re: Just a few more facts.
Faith writes:
I'd guess you are avoiding thinking about how it probably really is a human being so until you see it that way you aren't going to have any definite feelings about it.
This is Tinkerbell-style thinking - you think once I believe then I'll see. That you think this way should tell you, just as I've told you, that you have no evidence for your position, just your feelings.
The most frequent situation is that we all convince ourselves it's not a human being to justify abortion, a "woman's right" or however you think of it, but something suddenly makes the person aware that it really really is a human being and then you have the feelings appropriate to that.
But you reference no facts that would make a person aware "that it really really is a human being." This is the way you feel, not something you know.
Although I had a dream that it was a child it didn't affect my feelings, I just thought it was interesting, but much later when a saw a pro-life film that SHOWED me it is a human being I couldn't stop crying for days.
Yes, I can imagine given what you've described about how you feel about abortion today. But how did this pro-life film show it was a human being? My guess, since it was a film, is that you saw images of a fetus and realized how easily recognizable as human it was. If so then that same image to me would only say "obviously a human fetus," not "obviously a living human being."
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Faith, posted 07-31-2018 3:25 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Faith, posted 07-31-2018 8:08 PM Percy has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 165 of 441 (837408)
07-31-2018 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Percy
07-31-2018 6:05 PM


Re: Just a few more facts.
I gave you my evidence, it's actual evidence, actuals\ objective evide3nce. You people really cannot think. Of course I need to give up expecting anything rational from EvC. Nothing but sophistry and other wacko stuff, and you all congratulate each other on the wackiness. I don't remember people being this mentally deranged back before I became a Christian, I wonder what has happened.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Percy, posted 07-31-2018 6:05 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Percy, posted 07-31-2018 8:27 PM Faith has replied

  
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