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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 8 of 38 (837069)
07-26-2018 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
07-26-2018 9:20 AM


Re: the Iranian Variation
These scenarios, while thought of as far-fetched, underscore the tenacious position of Trump foreign policy.
Look at this article: Are Oil Markets Underestimating Irans Threats?
quote:
Bob McNally, founder and president of energy consultancy The Rapidan Group, said that the U.S. is waging economic war against Iran and when a country is backed into a corner like that, there has to be some risk that the country will lash out, even if it’s against a bigger power.(...) When you talk about Iran's exports, that's about 2.5 million barrels per day, but if you talk about interrupting the Strait of Hormuz, that's 19 million barrels a day, he said. About 30 percent of...seaborne-traded oil goes through that strait. So that's a much bigger problem.
Of course, if China then added gasoline to the trade war fire by swapping treasury notes for oil, as an example...it would clearly be an act of war. So What If? If China and Iran collaborated with an act of war scenario, what exactly could the United Staes do to retaliate??

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by jar, posted 07-26-2018 9:20 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by ringo, posted 07-26-2018 12:29 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 10 by jar, posted 07-26-2018 12:34 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 11 of 38 (837079)
07-26-2018 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
07-26-2018 12:34 PM


Re: the Iranian Variation
So one question is whether Trump really understands the game..
He may well be advocating the bitter medicine of wrestling the US away from globalization even if it means short-term(20 years+) pain so that Baron can inherit the legacy in 30 years...meanwhile the US middle class gets crushed and Trumps blue-collar supporters endure hard times and struggle to inherit the vacuum left by the imploding middle class. A win for the rich and for the blue collar conservatives...a loss for the Democratic "elitists" in the middle.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by jar, posted 07-26-2018 12:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by jar, posted 07-26-2018 4:17 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 16 of 38 (837122)
07-27-2018 5:53 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by jar
07-26-2018 4:17 PM


The Bill Gets Paid
jar writes:
Wrestling the US away from globalization simply means the rest of the world will get along just fine; the already rich will get along just fine.
We have talked about the idea and fact that "the bill will get paid" for many years now...only it seems much more ominous now than it did ten years ago.
Something in my gut intuitiveness tells me that the policies forming in the Trump administration presuppose that the bill has to be paid before the United States will ever become great again. Trump himself has undergone personal bankruptcies before and may feel that a US default and bankruptcy is inevitable. If the Republicans play their cards right, they can even set it up so that the actual collapse will occur during the next Democratic swing of the political cycle. How convenient! They realize that their own blue-collar supporters will never turn on them, even preferring to endure national bankruptcy and reorganization over sharing the stage with the liberal educated elitists who are largely Democratic anyway.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by jar, posted 07-26-2018 4:17 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 07-27-2018 7:33 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 07-27-2018 12:28 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 19 of 38 (837135)
07-27-2018 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by ringo
07-27-2018 12:28 PM


Re: The Bill Gets Paid
The United States will never become great again.
Neither will Great Britain.
You should be aiming for decency instead.
Thats my point. We need to just mind our own business and mend our own fences. We should quit being so mean to the people who want to come work here in order to find a better life since it is they who will pay the social security necessary for the rest of us baby boomers to successfully retire.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 07-27-2018 12:28 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 07-27-2018 1:08 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 21 of 38 (837236)
07-29-2018 6:03 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by ringo
07-27-2018 1:08 PM


Re: The Bill Gets Paid
But how do we keep China from taking over everything??

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 07-27-2018 1:08 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 07-29-2018 7:13 AM Phat has replied
 Message 27 by ringo, posted 07-29-2018 2:17 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 23 of 38 (837240)
07-29-2018 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by jar
07-29-2018 7:13 AM


Re: The Bill Gets Paid
jar writes:
Just how could China take over everything?
What Will Happen When China Takes Control Of Your Internet?
This is one article from Forbes. It explains how China is poised to dominate globally in the tech (information/smartphone/financial business.
Then there is this article. Is China Taking Over The World?
quote:
Language like that can make China's intentions seem sinister, and even though some politicians and economists may believe the country is plotting for world domination, what's more likely afoot is that China is in a two-way fight with the United States for the most foreign interests. These interests serve a purpose, but what they all add up to is control of foreign resources and commodities, as well as in a militaristic sense. The old adage "whoever dies with the most toys wins" is a joke, but the idea could apply to the battle being waged between the United States and China. In this case, it's not toys, but military bases, trade partners, and rights to natural resources in foreign countries. In other words, which country gains or retains the title of superpower.
My main worry in all of this is the financial one. If our dollar loses its global reserve currency status, things will cost a lot more here relative to our wealth. Our lifestyle will suffer and the populists really will be growling about Globalization then, once we are no longer top dog. Britain lost their place years ago, and their people suffered also during the switchover to US dominance. This time, I fear it will be far worse, though there is little we can do about it except work harder for less and let go of our superpower role...which in some ways may not be all bad. We can spend our money here at home instead of propping up all of our bases globally....only problem is that other nations will reap the benefits of the global trade monopoly we once enjoyed. And it seems Trump isnt helping.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 07-29-2018 7:13 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 07-29-2018 10:04 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 25 of 38 (837254)
07-29-2018 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
07-29-2018 10:04 AM


Re: The Bill Gets Paid
This from Wikipedia:
quote:
People who live in a country that issues a reserve currency can purchase imports and borrow across borders more cheaply than people in other nations because they do not need to exchange their currency to do so.
By the end of the 20th century, the United States dollar was considered the world's most dominant reserve currency.[1] The world's need for dollars has allowed the United States government as well as Americans to borrow at lower costs, granting them an advantage in excess of $100 billion per year.
If our economy unravels and the rest of the world abandons us as the chief reserve currency, it will cost more to borrow! That's what I am saying...this may end up being a significant effect felt here domestically.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 07-29-2018 10:04 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by jar, posted 07-29-2018 1:50 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 29 of 38 (837657)
08-07-2018 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by jar
07-30-2018 7:28 PM


Re: Speaking of Treasury Bonds...and Gold
Note that Gold is going steadily up and that China buys a lot of it.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by jar, posted 07-30-2018 7:28 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by jar, posted 08-07-2018 11:07 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 31 of 38 (837666)
08-07-2018 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by jar
08-07-2018 11:07 AM


Re: Speaking of Treasury Bonds...and Gold
What is your point?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by jar, posted 08-07-2018 11:07 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 08-07-2018 11:20 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 33 of 38 (837672)
08-07-2018 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by jar
08-07-2018 11:20 AM


Re: Speaking of Treasury Bonds...and Gold
Same with India. My point is that 23% is used as an investment, more than is currently used for industry. If the dollar tanked, these countries would be positioned to profit from our demise.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 08-07-2018 11:20 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by jar, posted 08-07-2018 11:45 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 35 of 38 (837839)
08-09-2018 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by jar
08-07-2018 11:45 AM


Re: Speaking of Treasury Bonds...and Gold
jar writes:
If the US dollar tanks then everyone else in the world would be positioned to profit from our demise.
Many people believe that it is eventually inevitable...and this has me concerned. China taking over is no problem unless it ends up costing US citizens more...but in a way, maybe we should let China pay to be the global cop so that WE get off the hook and can rebuild our own infrastructure

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by jar, posted 08-07-2018 11:45 AM jar has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 37 of 38 (837842)
08-09-2018 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by LamarkNewAge
08-09-2018 9:09 PM


Re: Nice if Mr. Bi-Lateral Trade actually had any trade deals in mind.
you really need to keep these long rambling posts within the proper topics rather than derailing all of them

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-09-2018 9:09 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-09-2018 9:22 PM Phat has not replied

  
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