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Author Topic:   Netanyahu: "Seventy years ago, only Shanghai opened the door... to Jewish refugees"
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 33 (837573)
08-06-2018 2:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
08-05-2018 11:24 PM


During the period when the Jewish people were being slaughtered, there was one place in the world that had "open borders", though not everybody knew it at the time.
So in your view, taking in refugees means "open borders". Sorry, I don't accept that characterization.
The fact that the Jewish population dropped from 18 million down to 12 million (due to the United States of America sending the Jewish migrant's sea vessel away from the American shore back to Europe
That ship had 6 million people on it? All six million of the exterminated Jews were bound for the US and refused entry? I think your heart is in the right place, but the US is not single-handedly responsible for the Holocaust. What do such claims add to the dialogue?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-05-2018 11:24 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-06-2018 11:55 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 33 (837629)
08-07-2018 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by LamarkNewAge
08-06-2018 11:55 PM


Shanghai allowed ANYBODY to come in without a visa.
Not having a visa means no requirements for entry in order to visit. That does not mean that anyone could stay forever.
I cannot know what those polled think "open borders" means.
You put the term in "scare quotes". What the heck were you implying that the term was supposed to mean?
And you still did not explain who the US turning around a ship is responsible for the death of 6 million Jews. And if the UK took in 1 of 10 asylum seekers, that would seem to be doing their share.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-06-2018 11:55 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-07-2018 8:31 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 33 (837633)
08-07-2018 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Phat
08-07-2018 2:45 AM


Re: Its The Money
I think that guarding the expenses is a reasonable approach to unchecked immigration. The United States needs people who will contribute to our society rather than becoming an expense.
Sure. I will buy that. But does that translate to fewer laborers and more white-collar workers? What the heck is merit? Are a strong back and a powerful work incentive not indicative of a contributor?
Because when some people make this argument, what they are pushing is not allowing people here from shit hole countries like Nigeria, who turn out to be among the most educated folks to come here, and a desire for more Australians who seem to have it pretty good at home, and who don't want to come here.
The fact is that no country has a claim to have the best and brightest. Folks come here with potential and make the best of our opportunities and education and become valuable. What country do you have to come from in order to make the best of what's here?
Convince me that "folks who can contribute" is not just racist double talk.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Phat, posted 08-07-2018 2:45 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Phat, posted 08-07-2018 4:22 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 33 (837649)
08-07-2018 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Phat
08-07-2018 4:22 AM


Re: Its The Money
What we don't want are people who need our largesse more than they are willing to contribute...and that can be individuals from any country.
So no refugees then? Are you requiring folks who come here to be financially well off before they get here? To be already educated? So no young folks either?
In my opinion, your policy would be extremely short-sighted absent some actual malicious intent.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Phat, posted 08-07-2018 4:22 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 08-07-2018 10:19 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 18 of 33 (837699)
08-07-2018 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Phat
08-07-2018 10:19 AM


Re: Its The Money
Not at all. I just dont want too many eager workers who only require minimum wages.
That's because you are a laborer. I suspect that tech workers who feel as you do, don't want too many eager workers who can program for less than what the tech workers want to be paid. If we adopt a "don't compete with me" immigration policy, just who would get in?
And do you make-up hotel beds or do gardening?
So you are not for a merit-based immigration policy at all. What you consider contributing is just not competing with you.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 08-07-2018 10:19 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 20 of 33 (837715)
08-07-2018 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Phat
08-07-2018 3:39 PM


Re: Its The Money
The willingness to do it for less. We can't allow the wages of citizens here to suffer simply to accommodate more workers. The businesses would love it of course, but it would be unfair to subject the laborers to such competition.
That's right. What's fair is that folks just crawl away into a corner and die instead of competing with you. Sorry, but it is difficult to imagine a less Christian sentiment.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 08-07-2018 3:39 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 08-07-2018 4:20 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 33 (837719)
08-07-2018 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
08-07-2018 4:20 PM


Re: Its The Money
How would you feel if you had major health issues such as Diabetes and Sleep Apnea and were nearly 60 and had no retirement except for the pension provided by your job and a wage that just paid your living expenses and you couldn't work at any other job and you were depending on a decent labor contract to survive? Would you simply count on Jesus as you watched the wages diminish?
How would you feel if you were faced with the choice between living in a war zone, not being able to educate your children, living in a tent city with no job prospects, and no way to even envision a future.
I suppose it is possible to pretend that every new person, born in the US or out of it, is a threat to your own existence. But the truth is that such thinking is sheer paranoia. How many refugees would we have to admit to this country before your job prospects would be negatively affected in an appreciable way.
I imagine that to your mind, the answer is just one.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 08-07-2018 4:20 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Phat, posted 08-07-2018 5:02 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 30 of 33 (837762)
08-08-2018 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
08-08-2018 4:12 PM


Re: Its The Money
Just because *you* proudly have never had a desire for an extra TV set or a weeks vacation fishing does not mean that middle class values should sound so strange to most of us.
Does the fact that a poor person doesn't have something like a TV set mean that somebody in the middle class has exploited you? Is the company you worked for owned by somebody in the middle class? Is some middle-class person ultimately responsible for the fact that you yourself are not in the middle-class?
If the answer to those question is not yes, then I suggest that your obvious ire is misplaced. Even your boss does not have the power to offer you raises that change your status more than incrementally.
You've got a lot of anger. But it is no more well directed than the anger that caused mine workers or air conditioning factory workers to vote for Trump. I know that telling you that does not help, and in fact is a complete turnoff. But somebody needs to say it.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 08-08-2018 4:12 PM Phat has not replied

  
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