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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2382 of 4573 (837776)
08-08-2018 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 2381 by Percy
08-08-2018 9:14 AM


Re: Trump's Accusations About Immigrants Wrong
Trump's claims that immigrants are healthcare moochers is dead wrong. The reality is that US born individuals are benefiting from the presence of immigrants with regard to healthcare because immigrants pay a proportionally larger share.
If only it were the case that facts mattered, eh?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2381 by Percy, posted 08-08-2018 9:14 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2410 of 4573 (838185)
08-15-2018 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 2408 by Chiroptera
08-15-2018 9:31 AM


Re: The Omarosa Thing
Up to now, White House officials have been coy about whether they were required to sign non-disclosure agreements. Well, now we know.
The reluctance might be because it is nearly impossible to discuss the agreements in a non-disparaging way, thereby violating them. Conway spoke about them a few days ago and made the outlandish claim that every employer requires similar agreements.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2408 by Chiroptera, posted 08-15-2018 9:31 AM Chiroptera has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2411 by Taq, posted 08-15-2018 1:14 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 2413 by ringo, posted 08-15-2018 1:19 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2414 of 4573 (838189)
08-15-2018 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 2413 by ringo
08-15-2018 1:19 PM


Re: The Omarosa Thing
I once worked for a cleaning company that made me sign a non-disclosure agreement.
You were likely bound not to reveal trade secrets. I doubt that you signed an agreement not to reveal that your boss was a slave driving ogre.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2413 by ringo, posted 08-15-2018 1:19 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2415 of 4573 (838190)
08-15-2018 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 2411 by Taq
08-15-2018 1:14 PM


Re: The Omarosa Thing
To be honest, I don't see anything wrong with those NDA's.
You are describing the state of things while you are on the job. Yes, you would be fired for disparaging your boss at that point. But these agreements purport to do much more than that, and extend, apparently forever.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2411 by Taq, posted 08-15-2018 1:14 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2416 by Taq, posted 08-15-2018 4:20 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2417 of 4573 (838194)
08-15-2018 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 2416 by Taq
08-15-2018 4:20 PM


Re: The Omarosa Thing
I think those types of NDA's are legal in the private sector, but definitely not enforceable in the public sector (i.e. government workers).
I don't think there is any distinction. An NDA would not prevent you from speaking about something illegal or from responding to a court order in any circumstance, but in circumstances where they are enforceable in the private sector, they are likely enforceable (using monetary penalties) in the public sector.
But NDAs that prevent you from speaking out well after employment are not common employment practice in the public sector. I agree that they are more common in some particular business sectors than others.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2416 by Taq, posted 08-15-2018 4:20 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2418 by Taq, posted 08-15-2018 5:54 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 2419 by Percy, posted 08-15-2018 7:10 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2420 of 4573 (838199)
08-15-2018 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 2418 by Taq
08-15-2018 5:54 PM


Re: The Omarosa Thing
From my brief reading on the matter, there seems to be different rules for "trade secrets" and "normal confidential information".
You read correctly. Trade secret protection is forever. But, for example only, using the "N" word is not a trade secret.
There are also many cases backing the 1st amendment rights of former government employees which means former government employees can share normal confidential information.
Yes, but those same concerns apply in the private sector. There may be more "newsworthy" stuff in the public sector, but the first amendment would be based on the subject matter and not the fact that the government is involved. NDAs are a contractural matter and you can agree to be silent for money.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2418 by Taq, posted 08-15-2018 5:54 PM Taq has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2421 of 4573 (838200)
08-15-2018 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 2419 by Percy
08-15-2018 7:10 PM


Re: The Omarosa Thing
My hope would be that the practice would be unheard of in the public sector. There's been a lot written in the press recently expressing doubt about their enforceability, e.g., Mark Zaid: 'Any NDA that extends beyond classified information would be unconstitutional.'.
At this point, you are wishing. We knew that Trump was making volunteers sign NDAs even during his campaign.
As for the idea that an NDA extends beyond classified information being unconstitutional, that's simply bad legal advice. Perhaps there was some context to Zaid's remarks that makes then something other than wishful thinking.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2419 by Percy, posted 08-15-2018 7:10 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2422 by Percy, posted 08-15-2018 9:14 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2429 of 4573 (838310)
08-18-2018 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 2422 by Percy
08-15-2018 9:14 PM


Re: The Omarosa Thing
re you referring to Zaid's remark in the headline or to his comments in the article? You didn't quote anything, so I can't tell what you're referring to.
I did not quote anything because you did not quote anything other than his conclusion. The idea that an NDA is only constitutional when applied to national security is ridiculous.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2422 by Percy, posted 08-15-2018 9:14 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2431 by Percy, posted 08-19-2018 8:35 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 2439 of 4573 (838522)
08-23-2018 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 2437 by jar
08-22-2018 9:56 AM


Re: Guilty As Charged
Historically what he has done is throw anyone else under the bus; he will shout "Yes they are guilty and should be drawn & quartered for taking advantage of me and committing all those sins"
Trump's response has been far worse than I anticipated. He is taking that stance that Manafort is a good dude because he did not snitch on Trump, and that Cohen is a no good tell-all, rat. As far as I am concern, Trump has essentially admitted guilt with that response.
How does Trump try to avoid responsibility?
1. By claiming that the activity that Cohen has confessed to and has been convicted for is actually not a crime.
2. By lying that he did not know about the payoffs during the campaign, despite the fact that he was recorded discussing the payoffs in September leading up to the election.
3. By saying that the payoff was not campaign money. That is actually an admission of guilt because it was a reimbursing for money that Cohen paid out of his own pocket to protect the campaign, non of which was reported, and all of which was way over the campaign limits even if it was reported. Trump is actually admitting to being an accessory to a crime.
4. By pointing to Obama's campaign finance fines. Please note that Obama was late reporting legal donations and was fined for late reporting. Trump and Cohen apparently failed to report illegal campaign contributions and then lied about them.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2437 by jar, posted 08-22-2018 9:56 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2441 by Stile, posted 08-23-2018 11:56 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2440 of 4573 (838523)
08-23-2018 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 2435 by Percy
08-19-2018 4:46 PM


Re: Michael Avenatti is Coming to New Hampshire
Maybe post it to youtube and then link to it?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2435 by Percy, posted 08-19-2018 4:46 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2447 by Percy, posted 08-23-2018 1:30 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 2444 of 4573 (838533)
08-23-2018 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 2441 by Stile
08-23-2018 11:56 AM


Re: Guilty As Charged
There will be some crazy-impeachment-thing at some point, Trump will cease being president and get taken to court.
I don't believe that Trump will be convicted if he is impeached. Democrats might be advised not to bother with impeachment. Trump is currently being sued in civil court, and is likely to face state charges at least in New York once he does leave office.
I don't see any way that Trump avoids criminal charges forever.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2441 by Stile, posted 08-23-2018 11:56 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2446 of 4573 (838540)
08-23-2018 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2431 by Percy
08-19-2018 8:35 AM


Re: The Omarosa Thing
You seem ticked off. Are you ticked off about something, or are you just perpetually ticked off. You certainly aren't very informative. Perhaps you could grace us with an explanation for why it's "ridiculous"
It would think that most adults are aware that non disclosure agreements are very common and are routinely enforced in court in situations that do not involve national security. I've enforced them for my clients and I have signed them for clients who want extra assurance that I hold their trade secrets and inventions in confidence. If all of that is news to you, then you are not going to be satisfied with my answer because I don't plan to expand on that.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2431 by Percy, posted 08-19-2018 8:35 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2448 by Percy, posted 08-23-2018 4:04 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2449 of 4573 (838570)
08-23-2018 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 2448 by Percy
08-23-2018 4:04 PM


Re: The Omarosa Thing
You have things askew. Zaid's position is that NDA's in government are not enforceable except in matters of national security
1. Is that what the quote said? No.
2. Even after limiting the scope to the government, the quote is still nonsense and does not reflect the law.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2448 by Percy, posted 08-23-2018 4:04 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2450 by Percy, posted 08-24-2018 8:21 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2451 of 4573 (838626)
08-24-2018 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 2450 by Percy
08-24-2018 8:21 AM


Re: The Omarosa Thing
Voluble as ever. Do you think just declaring something so with no evidence or rationale makes it so?
No. I am not making an argument. I am stating an opinion about something I know well because it is a part of the law that I practice. I did not have any intention of making an argument for my position. I will say this, though. Government officials discuss topics with private folks all of the time. Those discussions may involve policy, technology, and other things things that do not involve national security all of the time. The need for confidentiality does not require that national security is involved. For example, government officials review patent applications. They cannot reveal the contents of those applications to anyone even though the content may deal with a golf swing trainer made out of PVC piping. So a patent examiner must be bound by confidentiality even after he leaves government employment.
Similarly, a government official might want to reveal possibly policy details to a contractor to get an estimate. The contractor would reasonably expect to be bound by the same secrecy any other customer would require, and of course, that is exactly what does happen even if no national security secrets are involved.
A moments thought ought to make the stupidity of the pundit's claim obvious, and for that reason, I am not going to bother with making an argument. You are welcome to dispute my statement. I will probably respond at that point.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2450 by Percy, posted 08-24-2018 8:21 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2452 by Percy, posted 08-24-2018 4:05 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2454 of 4573 (838651)
08-25-2018 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2452 by Percy
08-24-2018 4:05 PM


Re: The Omarosa Thing
hat's pretty much the epitome of the fallacy of argument from one's own authority.
No, it is not an argument from authority Percy. I am stating an opinion and giving you the basis of my opinion. I am telling how I am in a position to know. I am not using it to convince you. Are you rejecting my statement based on anything other than some dude you believe said the opposite? No, you are not.
Beyond that, I did cite a number of situations where government employees and contractors are subject to NDAs. Your claim that those things are irrelevant is inane. Here is another example. If the government agency, say the post office, hires a patent attorney, something they do all of the time, would you expect that the NDA that attorney signs is unenforceable? Let's stipulate that there are no national security issues and that we are talking about an invention related to sorting mail more quickly.
In short, I have provided at least some support for my conclusion. Do you have any support, whatsoever for the opposite idea?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2452 by Percy, posted 08-24-2018 4:05 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2455 by Percy, posted 08-25-2018 3:03 PM NoNukes has replied

  
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