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Author Topic:   Christianity and the End Times
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 691 of 1748 (838293)
08-18-2018 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 683 by Faith
08-17-2018 7:50 PM


Re: Jonathan Cahn, the Ghost Kingdom which is the Roman Empire
Faith writes:
He refers to the emperors of the Holy Roman Empire, to the titles based on the word "Caesar" as in "Kaiser" as I mentioned in Message 88 and even to the Roman Catholic Church as continuing it which I've also mentioned. He talks about the European nations that sent out explorers and established colonies all over the world.
That's old news. I've been hearing it regurgitated since the 1970s.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 683 by Faith, posted 08-17-2018 7:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 692 by Faith, posted 08-18-2018 12:31 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 692 of 1748 (838294)
08-18-2018 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 691 by ringo
08-18-2018 11:43 AM


Re: Jonathan Cahn, the Ghost Kingdom which is the Roman Empire
ringo writes:
Faith writes:
He refers to the emperors of the Holy Roman Empire, to the titles based on the word "Caesar" as in "Kaiser" as I mentioned in Message 88 and even to the Roman Catholic Church as continuing it which I've also mentioned. He talks about the European nations that sent out explorers and established colonies all over the world.
That's old news. I've been hearing it regurgitated since the 1970s.
That's interesting. It's new to me. I find it quite compelling no matter how old it is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 691 by ringo, posted 08-18-2018 11:43 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 693 by ringo, posted 08-18-2018 12:36 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 694 by jar, posted 08-18-2018 12:45 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 693 of 1748 (838295)
08-18-2018 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 692 by Faith
08-18-2018 12:31 PM


Re: Jonathan Cahn, the Ghost Kingdom which is the Roman Empire
Faith writes:
I find it quite compelling no matter how old it is.
I found it straw-grasping then and now.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 692 by Faith, posted 08-18-2018 12:31 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 694 of 1748 (838297)
08-18-2018 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 692 by Faith
08-18-2018 12:31 PM


Re: Jonathan Cahn, the Ghost Kingdom which is the Roman Empire
Faith writes:
I find it quite compelling no matter how old it is.
Why do you find it compelling rather than simply stupid Faith?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 692 by Faith, posted 08-18-2018 12:31 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 695 by Faith, posted 08-18-2018 1:40 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 695 of 1748 (838300)
08-18-2018 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 694 by jar
08-18-2018 12:45 PM


Re: Jonathan Cahn, the Ghost Kingdom which is the Roman Empire
I find it compelling probably mostly because of how I see events shaping up in recent times with the European Union and its symbol of a goddess riding a beast. I was also very startled to find so much Roman symbolism in our government buildings, even the symbol of the "fasces" which became the symbol of fascism. What is that doing there? Why do we have gods and goddesses in the symbolism of a nation supposedly founded on Enlightenment principles of liberty? Why is our first President depicted as a god in the fresco in the Capitol dome when he rejected the role of king? What is going on here? How did these influences sneak into the symbolism of our nation? For me this answered the question people often ask these days: where is America in the scripture? Well, it's part of the worldwide Roman Empire that has been shaping up for centuries. It shouldn't be if we go by our founding philosophy but it is.
I think this is all a work in progress, the Roman Empire as a ghost empire just as Cahn sees it, that nobody has really recognized, that will take formidably real shape in the time of the Antichrist, when we will also have a worldwide religion that will call itself Christian just as the Antichrist will call himself Christian. It will be basically paganism.
Which describes the Roman Catholic Church with all its trappings that go back to the Roman Empire including the robes, and the tiara and the bishop's mitre that come from the old pagan religions that were included in the Roman pantheon, and the title Pontifex Maximus which is the title of the head of the Roman pagan religions. And all the other pagan trappings of the Roman church such as the rosary, the sign of the cross, the lighting of candles, the adoration of the saints which are just the old gods in new form, the image of the Madonna and child which goes back through many other pagan religions to Semiramus and Tammuz.
It's all of a piece with what I've learned about the Reformation views of the papacy as the Antichrist. Prophecy points to a time to come headed by a figure called the Antichrist who comes out of the Roman Empire, as the general Titus did. If the Roman Empire is now pretty much scattered around the world.
The Antichrist may be a Hitler figure but he will be backed by a Pope just as Hitler was backed by the Pope in his time, who arranged for the escape of many Nazi murderers to South American Catholic countries to avoid prosecution for war crimes. In any case the Reformers, all of them and many dissident Christians before them, identified the papacy as the Antichrist system. So whether a Pope IS the reigning Antichrist of the end days global system or the power behind a political figure who is the Antichrist, the papacy is certainly going to paly a big part in it.
Cahn did not identify the papacy as such a major player as I do, but at least he mentioned it as part of the Ghost Roman Empire that has existed all along. The fact that the Popes ruled over European kings for centuries is a big part of why I find this all compelling too, the fact that Hitler saw himjself as reviving the Holy Roman Empire as the Third Reich is important, as is the title "Kaiser" held by earlier German leader4s, an d "Czar" by Russian leaders. We don't have to have a literal replay of the old Roman Empire for all this to add up to its continuation into the present and suggest its fullblown manifestation in the near future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 694 by jar, posted 08-18-2018 12:45 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 696 by jar, posted 08-18-2018 1:50 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 697 by ringo, posted 08-18-2018 1:55 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 698 by PaulK, posted 08-18-2018 2:07 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 696 of 1748 (838301)
08-18-2018 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 695 by Faith
08-18-2018 1:40 PM


Re: Jonathan Cahn, the Ghost Kingdom which is the Roman Empire
Faith writes:
I find it compelling probably mostly because of how I see events shaping up in recent times with the European Union and its symbol of a goddess riding a beast. I was also very startled to find so much Roman symbolism in our government buildings, even the symbol of the "fasces" which became the symbol of fascism. What is that doing there? Why do we have gods and goddesses in the symbolism of a nation supposedly founded on Enlightenment principles of liberty? Why is our first President depicted as a god in the fresco in the Capitol dome when he rejected the role of king? What is going on here? How did these influences sneak into the symbolism of our nation? For me this answered the question people often ask these days: where is America in the scripture? Well, it's part of the worldwide Roman Empire that has been shaping up for centuries. It shouldn't be if we go by our founding philosophy but it is.
But, of course the Fasces was NOT the symbol of Fascism except in the minds of those unconnected from reality but rather adopted by fascism; it was a common historical devise that symbolized strength and unity. And those two features, strength through unity symbolize the intent of the United States of America.
And Washington is not presented as God except in the minds of those disassociated from reality in the fresco at the Capitol.
Faith writes:
It's all of a piece with what I've learned about the Reformation views of the papacy as the Antichrist. Prophecy points to a time to come headed by a figure called the Antichrist who comes out of the Roman Empire, as the general Titus did. If the Roman Empire is now pretty much scattered around the world.
And so yet again, all you have is the dogma of your Cult.
Cahn may just be ignorant but those who accept his nonsense must be willfully ignorant.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 695 by Faith, posted 08-18-2018 1:40 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 697 of 1748 (838303)
08-18-2018 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 695 by Faith
08-18-2018 1:40 PM


Re: Jonathan Cahn, the Ghost Kingdom which is the Roman Empire
Faith writes:
For me this answered the question people often ask these days: where is America in the scripture?
I've only ever heard that question asked as a joke - i.e. who would be silly enough to think America was mentioned in the Bible? In the history of the world, America is barely a footnote.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 695 by Faith, posted 08-18-2018 1:40 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 699 by Phat, posted 08-18-2018 9:12 PM ringo has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 698 of 1748 (838305)
08-18-2018 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 695 by Faith
08-18-2018 1:40 PM


Re: Jonathan Cahn, the Ghost Kingdom which is the Roman Empire
quote:
I find it compelling probably mostly because of how I see events shaping up in recent times with the European Union and its symbol of a goddess riding a beast
Which is based on Greek mythology - it’s a symbol of Europe - and obviously nothing to do with the Revelation. So, you’re desperate.
quote:
I was also very startled to find so much Roman symbolism in our government buildings, even the symbol of the "fasces" which became the symbol of fascism. What is that doing there? Why do we have gods and goddesses in the symbolism of a nation supposedly founded on Enlightenment principles of liberty?
Because Classical symbolism was very popular when it was painted I would imagine. The fasces was a symbol of authority for elected officials in the Roman Republic, so then - before the Fascists appropriated it - it was not inappropriate.
quote:
Why is our first President depicted as a god in the fresco in the Capitol dome when he rejected the role of king?
I’m sure you can find the answer if you look.
quote:
How did these influences sneak into the symbolism of our nation?
They didn’t sneak in. The fasces in particular is quite visible - it’s on the Great Seal and it was even on the reverse of the dime for nearly 30 years on top of a number of other uses.
quote:
For me this answered the question people often ask these days: where is America in the scripture? Well, it's part of the worldwide Roman Empire that has been shaping up for centuries. It shouldn't be if we go by our founding philosophy but it is.
It is more to do with the Roman Republic than the Empire. There are reasons why people drew parallels between Cincinattus and George Washington.
quote:
I think this is all a work in progress, the Roman Empire as a ghost empire just as Cahn sees it, that nobody has really recognized, that will take formidably real shape in the time of the Antichrist,
Except for the fact that a bit of symbolism here and there - especially symbolism that has more to do with the Republic than the Empire isn’t really much of an Empire.
quote:
...when we will also have a worldwide religion that will call itself Christian just as the Antichrist will call himself Christian.
We can see that by looking at you. You may well know it given how desperate you are to point the fingers at others.
quote:
We don't have to have a literal replay of the old Roman Empire for all this to add up to its continuation into the present and suggest its fullblown manifestation in the near future.
To have it as a continuing Empire it needs to be a continuing Empire. It isn’t. It died with the fall of Constantinople.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 695 by Faith, posted 08-18-2018 1:40 PM Faith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 699 of 1748 (838312)
08-18-2018 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 697 by ringo
08-18-2018 1:55 PM


America in Biblical Apologetic Prophecy
ringo writes:
who would be silly enough to think America was mentioned in the Bible? In the history of the world, America is barely a footnote.
In The Coming Epiphany the author has a whole Chapter describing America's role:
quote:
The clearest mention is found in Revelation 18. This chapter describes the end times
Babylon and the judgment that it will receive. I believe America is
the end-times Babylon talked about in this chapter. Let us examine this
chapter to find out why I believe America is the end-times Babylon, and
what will happen to her.
The main reason why I along with many others believe that
America is the Babylon talked about in Revelation 18 is because of several
verses that, when considered collectively, lead us to conclude that
America is the only country that fulfills all of the parameters listed in the
verses. Let us examine what the scriptures say about this modern day end times
Babylon and see how they undeniably point to America.
1. End-times Babylon is a great nation that receives judgment for its
many sins.
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the
great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils,
and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and
hateful bird. (Rev. 18:2)
2. This nation is a superpower and has world dominance and
importance. It has also spread its corruption to the world.
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her
fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication
with her. (Rev. 18:3)
3. The merchants of the world are made rich through trading with
this nation. This nation consumes huge amounts of goods.
And the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the
abundance of her delicacies. (Rev. 18:3)
And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her;
for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The
merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of
pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all
thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner
vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and
marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and
frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and
beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls
of men. (Rev. 18:11—13)
4. This nation is proud and arrogant and considers herself to be
invincible and the greatest nation on earth.
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so
much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit
a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. (Rev. 18:7)
5. This nation is typified by an extravagant lifestyle.
And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine
linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious
stones, and pearls! (Rev. 18:16)
6. Other nations are controlled by her and given great riches by her.
And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and
lived deliciously with her. (Rev. 18:9)
7. This nation is a coastal nation, with deepwater ports and much
international trade.
And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors,
and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off. (Rev. 18:17)
8. This nation has defenses in the heavens.
Though Babylon should mount up to heaven, and though she
should fortify the height of her strength, yet from me shall spoilers
come unto her, saith the Lord. (Jer. 51:53)
Which nation is the only one in the world that meets all those
qualifications? America! We are the greatest country in the world. We are
the only remaining superpower. We dominate world politics and dictate
much of what happens in other countries through whom and what we fund
in those countries. We have the largest Gross National Product (GNP) in
the world, far surpassing all other countries. We buy huge amounts of
goods from other countries. In fact, the economy of many countries would
collapse without our trade dollars. We are a proud and arrogant people and
feel that we are invincible and that we are the greatest nation in the world.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 697 by ringo, posted 08-18-2018 1:55 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 700 by PaulK, posted 08-19-2018 2:18 AM Phat has replied
 Message 708 by ringo, posted 08-19-2018 2:16 PM Phat has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 700 of 1748 (838313)
08-19-2018 2:18 AM
Reply to: Message 699 by Phat
08-18-2018 9:12 PM


Re: America in Biblical Apologetic Prophecy
You’ll note that the description doesn’t single out any particular nation and would have described other nations at other times. Given the evidence of Revelation 1:7 it’s more likely to refer to the Roman Empire.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 699 by Phat, posted 08-18-2018 9:12 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 701 by Phat, posted 08-19-2018 2:51 AM PaulK has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 701 of 1748 (838315)
08-19-2018 2:51 AM
Reply to: Message 700 by PaulK
08-19-2018 2:18 AM


Re: America in Biblical Apologetic Prophecy
But the Roman Empire is...as you say...gone.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 700 by PaulK, posted 08-19-2018 2:18 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 702 by PaulK, posted 08-19-2018 3:07 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 703 by jar, posted 08-19-2018 7:44 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 702 of 1748 (838316)
08-19-2018 3:07 AM
Reply to: Message 701 by Phat
08-19-2018 2:51 AM


Re: America in Biblical Apologetic Prophecy
Nevertheless Rome fitted the description when the Revelation was written and Revelation 1:7 indicates that the Second Coming was going to occur within the lifetime of the men who crucified Jesus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 701 by Phat, posted 08-19-2018 2:51 AM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 703 of 1748 (838318)
08-19-2018 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 701 by Phat
08-19-2018 2:51 AM


Re: America in Biblical Apologetic Prophecy
And the prophesy in Revelations referred to a time almost 2000 years ago.
It was, as only makes sense, written for the audience alive at the time it was written.
Everything in Revelation was to have happened over 1900 years ago.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 701 by Phat, posted 08-19-2018 2:51 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 704 of 1748 (838319)
08-19-2018 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 681 by Faith
08-17-2018 9:06 AM


Re: First Love
Faith,
quote:
Thanks. No, I have lousy discipline.
Starting the day with the Lord Jesus is about the same as having breakfast each morning.
I don't consider it great discipline to eat breakfast every day. Does it require strong discipline to have a bowl of cereal first thing in the morning ?
Similarly, even FIVE minutes to start reading aloud some verses is about as disciplined as having toast each morning. And if you cannot do so in the morning, it is effective to do so anyway, when you can.
We don't have to claim our weaknesses. We can believe that He has all that we need. I mean turn our eyes OFF of ourselves and look away to Jesus Christ with praises.
Breathing also does not take a lot of discipline. Just to breath the name of Jesus is effective to touch the Spirit of Jesus.
The song writer said "Just to breath the name of Jesus is to drink of life indeed."
As soon as you awaken in the morning, before the Devil puts all kinds of proposals into your head, just breath the name of Jesus .... "Lord Jesus, O LOrd Jesus. Lord Jesus, Lord Jesus I love you."
We can touch Him first thing in our day. I don't think to start it requires great discipline. But it is like a salmon fish swimming upstream though. For the current of this age is always pulling us AWAY from God.
This is a MINI rapture. This is mini snatching away of your being from the world UNTO the Lord Jesus. When you call upon His name or breath in prayer some passage of the Bible you experience a minute rapture from the world. The final Rapture is going to be in principle the same.
So I would you to have many many tiny little raptures from this world to Christ by calling on His name and speaking forth His word. Don't claim and stand upon your failures and weaknesses. Neither even believe in them.
Believe rather in the Lord Jesus calling out to Him, reaching out to Him utterning His name and speaking His word.
Practice rapture.
Practice your own little mini snatching AWAY from the world UNTO the Lord Jesus.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 681 by Faith, posted 08-17-2018 9:06 AM Faith has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 705 of 1748 (838320)
08-19-2018 8:16 AM


Faith,
quote:
Maybe partly because I became a believer on my own by reading books and got in the habit of depending on external inspiration rather than personal discipline. Thanks though, that is good advice.
It doesn't matter HOW you came to Jesus. The important thing is the you CAME to Jesus. And you can continue to TURN YOUR HEART to the Lord Jesus. Just to call "O Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus YOU love Me. O LOrd thankyou for YOUR love" will cause your soul to be snatched away from a little while in a MICRO RAPTURE.
The final Rapture is the same in principle. Do you understand this? The Rapture is just a big snatching away preceded by many many small snatching aways.
So practice letting the Lord Jesus SNATCH your attention away from this fallen world to Him. That's all. We practice. And we practice again. Eventually we just BREATH in prayer His presence and unconsciously walk in Him.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

  
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