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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1902 of 4573 (828413)
02-17-2018 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1897 by jar
02-16-2018 7:55 PM


Re: I am amazed ...
It is beyond belief that a Nation would interfere in the internal politics and elections of a foreign nation, particularly as State sponsored and funded secret efforts and disinformation campaigns.
When we do it to them, its to make the world safe for democracy. When they do it to us, it is a war against our way of life.
As An American Tragedy Unfolds, Russian Agents Sow Discord Online
quote:
Data collected by the site over the past few months suggests that Russian social media accounts are now regularly seizing on divisive or tragic news to rile up segments of American society.(...) "By taking an extreme hyper-partisan position, it just serves to further rip us apart," Schafer says.
Now that the shoe is on the other foot, it becomes an issue.
Nobody cared when the US tried to influence other governments because it was assumed we were simply paving the way for a better way of life in those oppressed countries. In contrast, there is no way Russia is going to improve our way of life...except perhaps to expose the hypocrisy of our wealthy elite...

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1897 by jar, posted 02-16-2018 7:55 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1903 by NoNukes, posted 02-17-2018 1:40 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 1907 by jar, posted 02-17-2018 3:45 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 1915 of 4573 (828458)
02-18-2018 11:31 AM


Latest From NPR
This from NPR:
Trump Chides McMaster For Saying Evidence Of Russian Interference 'Incontrovertible'
NPR,quoting Trumps Tweet writes:
General McMaster forgot to say that the results of the 2016 election were not impacted or changed by the Russians and that the only Collusion was between Russia and Crooked H, the DNC and the Dems. Remember the Dirty Dossier, Uranium, Speeches, Emails and the Podesta Company!
Another tweet by the president of the United States!(Just saying that brings nausea to my gut)
I never said Russia did not meddle in the election, I said it may be Russia, or China or another country or group, or it may be a 400 pound genius sitting in bed and playing with his computer. The Russian hoax was that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia - it never did!
The president sounds like he is an adolescent! I still never cease to be amazed at the level of communication from the current president versus the last one...its like night and day!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2034 of 4573 (833040)
05-16-2018 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 2033 by jar
05-16-2018 9:05 AM


Re: North Korea: Why am I not surprised?
One could argue, however, that the US represents the interests of most civilized societies while N.Korea represents an uncertain threat.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2033 by jar, posted 05-16-2018 9:05 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2035 by jar, posted 05-16-2018 11:45 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2044 of 4573 (833697)
05-25-2018 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 2043 by NoNukes
05-25-2018 11:04 AM


The Games People Play
Great statement by Trump today that sums it all up:
NPR writes:
Asked by a reporter if North Korea was playing games with him, Trump responded that "everybody plays games, you know that better than anybody."

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2043 by NoNukes, posted 05-25-2018 11:04 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2084 of 4573 (834937)
06-15-2018 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 2083 by jar
06-15-2018 7:17 AM


Re: Remember the goal.
It almost seems as if they also want a free press and media to devolve into propaganda rather than fact-based reporting. I really cant figure out why they want to start trade wars (which we would win in 1950 but certainly not today) with allies---all the while cozying up to the N.Korean Dictator and suddenly accepting him into the good ole boys club!
Im not sure of the goal regarding trade wars.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2083 by jar, posted 06-15-2018 7:17 AM jar has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2126 of 4573 (835726)
06-29-2018 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 2123 by Stile
06-29-2018 10:10 AM


Re: Possible reasons for requiring union dues.
stile writes:
But in an overall sense, I still think unions are too powerful.
That is, there's nothing stopping a union from negotiating more and more money for its employees (and union leaders...) and putting the company right out of business.
There is a fine line in negotiating, and any wise negotiators know how far they can push without jeopardizing the entire process and upsetting the apple cart. Many factors must be taken into consideration. You have the political climate. Trump and the conservatives are in power which could possibly embolden the company to fight and push back. You have the labor market itself. And you have a changing industry...for example, the grocery stores now have to deal with Amazon, assistance free checkout and potential loss of jobs in the industry, and the fact that wages and productivity departed ways a long time ago.
jar writes:
Look at the data available online at how wealth is distributed among a nation's population and you will see that the US is an outlier among the developed nations in income disparity with very rich and very poor and an ever smaller middle class.
Good point. It used to be that in the grocery industry, a unionized senior worker could afford to send the kids through school and buy a house on fulltime wages. It was seen as a skilled labor job, which justified the union oversight.
Nowadays, we workers are seen as a line item expense that needs to be managed and trimmed if possible. There are only 11% of the workers left on the "old" pre-2005 contract scale--while the lions share of the workers are the newer ones without a pension and without as many paid holidays or vacations. Splitting the contracts in 2005 weakened the unions bargaining power (more so now, down the line) and further splitting the ranks between unionized and non-unionized labor being allowed to work in the same stores defeats the bargaining power that unity by definition entails.
Do you see a flaw in the ebb-and-flow idea?
Yes. Current workers would be harmed by any ebb in the flow. The whole idea of a constant contract is to ensure a livelihood for workers soon to retire as well as newer ones coming on board. Philosophically your idea makes sense in a supply and demand bigger picture outlook, but not so much for the workers being represented now.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2123 by Stile, posted 06-29-2018 10:10 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(2)
Message 2180 of 4573 (836522)
07-18-2018 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2179 by Stile
07-18-2018 12:49 PM


Re: Trump Golf
I wonder if either of them got a hole in Un?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2179 by Stile, posted 07-18-2018 12:49 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 2196 of 4573 (836549)
07-19-2018 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 2195 by jar
07-19-2018 7:52 AM


Re: But that is a trait that defines the Evangelical Fundamentalist
I can say that most of my Right Wing Christian associates have in fact defended the Helsinki debacle, but I am angry about it and consider it in no way fake news. I agree with most of what McCain and other officials both Democratic and Republican said in condemning Trump. And yet according to you, I am part of this so-called cult of ignorance. My point is that you cannot generalize.
Now...A bit of humor:
Edited by Phat, : wrong video

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2195 by jar, posted 07-19-2018 7:52 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2197 by ringo, posted 07-19-2018 11:52 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2215 of 4573 (836656)
07-20-2018 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 2211 by NoNukes
07-20-2018 2:37 PM


Why The Right Thinks As They Do
NN, talking to marc9000 writes:
But the rest of us Christians cannot see what there is about his personality to like.
Hear hear.
NN writes:
Yet you and "many Christians" see something in his personality that they like. What might that be?
Because they are right-wing populists.
Also, this quote:
quote:
Republicans are continuing to support the president in part because they are tired of the constant attacks leveled against him by both Democrats and the media, which have led them to feel defensive of themselves and Trump. The result, according to Peters, has been a bonding experience that keeps the party’s voters from drifting away.
Let me show you some quotes from some of "them" (anonymous friends of friends whom I don't really know...but who answer one right-wing Christian I DO know on facebook
Joe Whitson Note the topics that Joe chooses to bring up and note the reactions. Please, nobody, bother this man but I am bringing up his public Facebook page to show examples of how the Trump supporters think.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2211 by NoNukes, posted 07-20-2018 2:37 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2216 by Percy, posted 07-21-2018 12:26 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2389 of 4573 (838028)
08-12-2018 4:41 PM


Who Pays For The Extra Police Protection
I recently read this article, Small Group Of White Supremacists Rally In D.C. Amid Mass Counterprotests and it struck me how expensive the police protection must cost in overtime and in additional funds to provide mounted police protection as well as extra officers on the scene. Why should the public pay for such controversial clashes between opposing ideologies?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Replies to this message:
 Message 2390 by ringo, posted 08-12-2018 5:11 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 2391 by Coragyps, posted 08-12-2018 5:20 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 2392 by Chiroptera, posted 08-12-2018 6:03 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2433 of 4573 (838327)
08-19-2018 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2432 by Chiroptera
08-19-2018 10:55 AM


Re: The game of thrones continues
Check out Jon Josts Web Blog take on the status quo of Trump in context.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2432 by Chiroptera, posted 08-19-2018 10:55 AM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2434 by Chiroptera, posted 08-19-2018 2:45 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2436 of 4573 (838460)
08-22-2018 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 2435 by Percy
08-19-2018 4:46 PM


Guilty As Charged
It was a big day in politics. Guilty: 6 Takeaways From Manafort's And Cohen's Big Day
NPR reports that the two court decisions on Tuesday(yesterday) will have big implications for President Trump.
From the article: Six points are made.
1. This was a remarkable and potentially consequential day in the Trump presidency
2. It proves the danger of the Mueller investigation for Trump
3. Clear, incontrovertible evidence is the key to proving anything and winning public opinion
4. Is there another shoe to drop soon?(September 7th at the latest...60 days from Election Day.)
5. This adds to the Democrats' scandal push
6. Trump says he hits back harder, so what will he do?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2435 by Percy, posted 08-19-2018 4:46 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2437 by jar, posted 08-22-2018 9:56 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2459 of 4573 (838702)
08-26-2018 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 2456 by NoNukes
08-25-2018 3:15 PM


The Mental Stress Of Debate.
NN writes:
This is not personal, Percy. So why make it personal.
I see that you are taking a break. It's probably a good thing for all of us to do from time to time. We often get personally involved in winning arguments and expanding our points. In the end, we need to realize that people at this forum may never see things our way and that none of us can win every argument we engage in---no matter how reasonable and logical our position seems to us.
Enjoy some time off from this craziness. Trump has some rocky rapids ahead...and the drama will play out, in reality, the way that destiny has prepared for it. The outcome may not be what any of us think will happen or even should happen.
As for the debate, many of us...myself and perhaps Percy included---hone our arguments and debating skills here. We like to make it personal, despite our own Forum Guidelines. Others of us realize that we won't win every argument nor should we feel a need to do so. Enjoy the cooler weather ahead.
Percy writes:
I'm just describing what you're doing and you're taking it personally.
Your attentiveness to detail and to nitpick makes for well-presented arguments but can be taken personally should one of us become the recipient of your thorough way of capturing our argument and reframing it.
I never have any problem with you because we rarely engage in discourse---my nemesis is jar! One could argue that such arguments and debates should be expected at a debate posting board. It is said that one should never discuss religion nor politics---yet your favorite subject is politics and mine is religion!
Perhaps both of you should simply drop this particular argument and chalk it up as a draw.
Edited by Phat, : adding Percy to my reply

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2456 by NoNukes, posted 08-25-2018 3:15 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2463 of 4573 (839028)
09-02-2018 2:18 PM


There was an interesting article on Trump at NPR which I will share:
For President Trump, Life Is Just Not Fair And What That Means For The Rest Of Us
The title caught my attention because I myself often say the same thing---life isn't fair to me. Of course, I never grew up like Trump did---I am middle-lower middle class, aging, with sleep apnea and diabetes and caught between an aggressive upper middle class and a hungry lower class that domestically and globally hungers for success. Nevertheless, these points in the article resonated with me:
  • He (Trump) has capitalized on grievance, especially that of white Americans chafing at the culture of a demographically changing country, and has expressed his view of what is unfair everything from trade and immigration to the court system, the Affordable Care Act's individual coverage mandate, the IRS, the plight of political allies and, of course, the news media.
    Since he announced he was running for president, he has used the word "unfair" 69 times in tweets, and since becoming president, 40 times.
  • Four times since June, Trump has referred to the press as the "enemy of the people" on Twitter. His press secretary on Thursday refused to say the press wasn't and instead ticked off a list of grievances and perceived slights.
    If it's negative news, Trump dubs it "fake" news.
  • Veteran journalist Marvin Kalb has written a forthcoming book called, "Enemy of the People." He warns that this kind of targeting of the press is familiar:
    "Twentieth-century dictators notably, Stalin, Hitler, and Mao had all denounced their critics, especially the press, as 'enemies of the people.' Their goal was to delegitimize the work of the press as 'fake news' and create confusion in the public mind about what's real and what isn't; what can be trusted and what can't be. That, it seems, is also Trump's goal."

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

  • Replies to this message:
     Message 2468 by marc9000, posted 09-08-2018 11:25 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 2484 of 4573 (839808)
    09-16-2018 3:49 PM
    Reply to: Message 2483 by marc9000
    09-16-2018 3:34 PM


    Reflection
    Is there a global conspiracy against our bastion of freedom? Must socialism be evil? Must globalism be any worse than nationalism? Is it really us against the world?

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 2483 by marc9000, posted 09-16-2018 3:34 PM marc9000 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 2485 by marc9000, posted 09-16-2018 4:59 PM Phat has not replied

      
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