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Author Topic:   Immigrants good for me and you? Bad? How to make a good answer that is accurate?
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 196 of 353 (838723)
08-26-2018 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:32 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Faith writes:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Roman Empire wasn't a welfare state.
It doesn't matter what kind of state it was. Jesus didn't leave a lot of loopholes for you to weasel through.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:38 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 197 of 353 (838724)
08-26-2018 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by ringo
08-26-2018 3:32 PM


Re: Socialism is theft
That's bizarre. If it's collected as taxes, as Jesus advocated, and used to help the poor, as Jesus advocated, it's robbery?
Yes dear, Socialism 101 there, redistribution of wealth, from each according to ability to each according to need. That's what socialism is, helping the poor by robbing the ones with money.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 3:32 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 3:45 PM Faith has replied
 Message 219 by jar, posted 08-26-2018 5:10 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 198 of 353 (838725)
08-26-2018 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by ringo
08-26-2018 3:34 PM


Re: Robber Barons
It doesn't matter what kind of state it was. Jesus didn't leave a lot of loopholes for you to weasel through.
Oh it matters a great great deal since a welfare state is a state that commits theft, which taxation for legitimate purposes is not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 3:34 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 3:43 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 199 of 353 (838726)
08-26-2018 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:38 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Faith writes:
Oh it matters a great great deal since a welfare state is a state that commits theft, which taxation for legitimate purposes is not.
Jesus didn't say anything about a welfare state. He said pay your taxes.
And He didn't say anything about "legitimate purposes". He said pay your taxes. No doubt some of those taxes were used for purposes that He wouldn't approve of - but He just said pay your taxes.
And here's you who doesn't want to pay taxes for things He did approve of.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:45 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 200 of 353 (838727)
08-26-2018 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:37 PM


Re: Socialism is theft
Faith writes:
Yes dear, Socialism 101 there, redistribution of wealth, from each according to ability to each according to need. That's what socialism is, helping the poor by robbing the ones with money.
You keep saying "robbing". You need a lesson in English 101.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:52 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 201 of 353 (838728)
08-26-2018 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by ringo
08-26-2018 3:43 PM


Re: Robber Barons
It's true, He simply said pay your taxes, and all of us have to do that no matter what without asking what they are for. But just as a matter of fact the welfare state operates on theft and there's no way Jesus approves of theft, He advocates giving, period.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 3:43 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 3:50 PM Faith has replied
 Message 203 by Tangle, posted 08-26-2018 3:51 PM Faith has replied
 Message 208 by Capt Stormfield, posted 08-26-2018 4:00 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 202 of 353 (838729)
08-26-2018 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:45 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Faith writes:
But just as a matter of fact the welfare state operates on theft....
No, that's false by any definition of theft.
Faith writes:
there's no way Jesus approves of theft, He advocates giving, period.
Jesus told His disciples that the lady who gave two mites was giving more than the rich men who gave bags and bags of gold. It isn't how much you give in absolute terms that counts - it's how much you keep for yourself. By Jesus' principles, it's the rich men who are "stealing' by not giving as much as they should.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:45 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:57 PM ringo has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 203 of 353 (838730)
08-26-2018 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:45 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Faith writes:
But just as a matter of fact the welfare state operates on theft and there's no way Jesus approves of theft, He advocates giving, period.
Well my welfare state is described as
The welfare state of the United Kingdom comprises expenditures by the government of the United Kingdom intended to improve health, education, employment and social security.
Jesusey sort of things I'd say. No mention of robbery.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:45 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:54 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 204 of 353 (838731)
08-26-2018 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by ringo
08-26-2018 3:45 PM


Re: Socialism is theft
You keep saying "robbing". You need a lesson in English 101.
Well, you really are addicted to the euphemisms. Hey, Ben Shapiro is good on socialism, and there's lots of his stuff at YouTube.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 3:45 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 4:09 PM Faith has replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(1)
Message 205 of 353 (838732)
08-26-2018 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:19 PM


Re: Socialism
A few socialistic programs built on top of a capitalist economy is not a "successfully socialized country"
In fact that is precisely the definition. It is exactly the situation that exists in the countries "conservatives" always wave about as examples of the socialist bogeyman. You keep hacking at some Marxist strawman from the era of your childhood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:19 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 4:03 PM Capt Stormfield has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 206 of 353 (838733)
08-26-2018 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Tangle
08-26-2018 3:51 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Well my welfare state is described as
The welfare state of the United Kingdom comprises expenditures by the government of the United Kingdom intended to improve health, education, employment and social security.
Jesusey sort of things I'd say. No mention of robbery.
Of course not, that's the word that is hidden under all the euphemisms.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Tangle, posted 08-26-2018 3:51 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 207 of 353 (838734)
08-26-2018 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by ringo
08-26-2018 3:50 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Jesus told His disciples that the lady who gave two mites was giving more than the rich men who gave bags and bags of gold. It isn't how much you give in absolute terms that counts - it's how much you keep for yourself. By Jesus' principles, it's the rich men who are "stealing' by not giving as much as they should.
And Jesus criticizes them while praising the lady who gave the two mites. What's your point?. They GIVE, they are not FORCED to give.
And yes, the welfare state is based on theft.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 3:50 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 4:13 PM Faith has replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 208 of 353 (838735)
08-26-2018 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:45 PM


Re: Robber Barons
He simply said pay your taxes, and all of us have to do that no matter what without asking what they are for. But just as a matter of fact the welfare state operates on theft...
So let me see if I have this straight. You agree with Jesus that his followers in Roman times had a duty to pay their taxes, that those taxes were legitimately owed to the state. But in today's world, with duly elected democratic governments, those taxes have become theft from all the good Christian citizens?
He advocates giving, period.
You know, just one line back you said he advocates paying your taxes. Maybe you should eat more green leafy vegetables, I hear they're good for the short term memory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:45 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 4:09 PM Capt Stormfield has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 209 of 353 (838736)
08-26-2018 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Capt Stormfield
08-26-2018 3:53 PM


Re: Socialism
I've been enjoying Ben Shapiro's talks and he points out all kinds of negative effects from the socialist programs in those capitalistic countries, that always lead to having to elect a rightwing government to straighten out them mess. But as long as the programs exist the mess keeps getting generated.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Capt Stormfield, posted 08-26-2018 3:53 PM Capt Stormfield has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 210 of 353 (838738)
08-26-2018 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:52 PM


Re: Socialism is theft
Faith writes:
Hey, Ben Shapiro is good on socialism, and there's lots of his stuff at YouTube.
I'm certainly not going to waste any time on YouTube. I did Google him and he appears to be an idiot. I see where you get your empty- headed rhetoric from.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:52 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 4:15 PM ringo has replied

  
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