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Author Topic:   Immigrants good for me and you? Bad? How to make a good answer that is accurate?
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 196 of 353 (838723)
08-26-2018 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:32 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Faith writes:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Roman Empire wasn't a welfare state.
It doesn't matter what kind of state it was. Jesus didn't leave a lot of loopholes for you to weasel through.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:38 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 199 of 353 (838726)
08-26-2018 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:38 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Faith writes:
Oh it matters a great great deal since a welfare state is a state that commits theft, which taxation for legitimate purposes is not.
Jesus didn't say anything about a welfare state. He said pay your taxes.
And He didn't say anything about "legitimate purposes". He said pay your taxes. No doubt some of those taxes were used for purposes that He wouldn't approve of - but He just said pay your taxes.
And here's you who doesn't want to pay taxes for things He did approve of.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:45 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 200 of 353 (838727)
08-26-2018 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:37 PM


Re: Socialism is theft
Faith writes:
Yes dear, Socialism 101 there, redistribution of wealth, from each according to ability to each according to need. That's what socialism is, helping the poor by robbing the ones with money.
You keep saying "robbing". You need a lesson in English 101.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:52 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 202 of 353 (838729)
08-26-2018 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:45 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Faith writes:
But just as a matter of fact the welfare state operates on theft....
No, that's false by any definition of theft.
Faith writes:
there's no way Jesus approves of theft, He advocates giving, period.
Jesus told His disciples that the lady who gave two mites was giving more than the rich men who gave bags and bags of gold. It isn't how much you give in absolute terms that counts - it's how much you keep for yourself. By Jesus' principles, it's the rich men who are "stealing' by not giving as much as they should.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:45 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:57 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 210 of 353 (838738)
08-26-2018 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:52 PM


Re: Socialism is theft
Faith writes:
Hey, Ben Shapiro is good on socialism, and there's lots of his stuff at YouTube.
I'm certainly not going to waste any time on YouTube. I did Google him and he appears to be an idiot. I see where you get your empty- headed rhetoric from.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:52 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 4:15 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 212 of 353 (838740)
08-26-2018 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:57 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Faith writes:
And Jesus criticizes them while praising the lady who gave the two mites. What's your point?. They GIVE, they are not FORCED to give.
Nobody is forced to give. You can't whine about forcible taxation because Jesus told you to pay your taxes. There is no force, there is no theft. There's only obeying Jesus.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:57 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 4:18 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 215 of 353 (838743)
08-26-2018 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Faith
08-26-2018 4:15 PM


Re: Socialism is theft
Faith writes:
Let's see: "Idiot" in Leftspeak refers to people who know what they are talking about when it comes to socialism.
For somebody who claims to know what you're talking about, you don't seem to have much to say except silly mantras about "theft". Do you have any thoughts of your own?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 4:15 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 216 of 353 (838744)
08-26-2018 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Faith
08-26-2018 4:18 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Faith writes:
Actually I could make a case for refusing to pay such taxes on the basis that they are theft, and maybe it will come to that.
If you can make that case, why don't you do it instead of just parroting a lot of right-wing rhetoric?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 4:18 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 4:44 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 218 of 353 (838746)
08-26-2018 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Faith
08-26-2018 4:44 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Faith writes:
Ah yes now it's only personal attack, no substance.
You're losing the plot. I pointed out that you are posting nothing of substance. You have done nothing to back up your claim that Jesus was wrong. You have done nothing to back up your claim that taxation is theft. You have done nothing to back up your claim that the Roman Empire was "different" so you don't have to obey Jesus.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 4:44 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 6:14 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 230 of 353 (838763)
08-27-2018 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:27 PM


Re: Socialism
Faith writes:
What *I* have trouble understanding is how anyone could impute the advocacy of theft to Jesus.
Simple. You're misusing the word "theft'. Jesus advocated paying your taxes. Period.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:27 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 231 of 353 (838764)
08-27-2018 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by Faith
08-26-2018 6:14 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Faith writes:
Weird. I have to prove that there's a difference between giving voluntarily to help out your impoverished neighbor and having to pay a tax to help him out that if you fail to pay it will put you in jail?
Jesus said pay tour taxes. What part of that do you not understand?
"Voluntary" giving is a copout. It's often used as an excuse to give less than you owe.
The lady with the two mites gave all that she had; the rich men "voluntarily" gave much more in the absolute sense but much less according to Jesus; their "voluntary" giving was inadequate. Jesus told another rich man to sell what he had and give it to the poor; it doesn't get more socialistic than that. In the Old Testament, the widow gave Elijah all of her food.
quote:
Ecclesiastes 11:1 Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days.
i.e. there is a return on your investment.
It's a very important Biblical principle that you're spitting on.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 6:14 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by Faith, posted 08-27-2018 12:46 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 232 of 353 (838765)
08-27-2018 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Faith
08-27-2018 6:02 AM


Re: Robber Barons
Faith writes:
I'm not aware of the Bible's making the tithe mandatory.
The Bible speaks of the tithe belonging to God. Not paying it would really be theft.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Faith, posted 08-27-2018 6:02 AM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 235 of 353 (838769)
08-27-2018 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Faith
08-27-2018 12:46 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Faith writes:
Just as a matter of fact voluntary giving ends up giving a lot more than a tenth.
That's irrelevant. Ten per cent was always the minimum. As Jesus said, the ideal is 100%.
Faith writes:
For the Church it is not mandatory, it is replaced by voluntary giving from the heart.
Yes, that's the problem, as I already mentioned. Christians often try to weasel out from Jesus' ideal.
Faith writes:
The tithe in Israel did not go to the support of poor people though...
quote:
Deuteronomy 26:12 When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;
Stranger = immigrant. Fatherless , widow = poor.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Faith, posted 08-27-2018 12:46 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Faith, posted 08-27-2018 3:12 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 239 of 353 (838773)
08-27-2018 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by Faith
08-27-2018 3:12 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Faith writes:
It is not to be applied to a nontheocracy, a secular state, however, where people are not in covenant with God and each other....
Says who? God doesn't have a covenant with the state. The individual is responsible for living up to the terms of the covenant.
Faith writes:
The appropriate principle is giving from the heart, not taxation, and to that end the government should get its hands out of it.
You're contradicting Jesus. He said pay your taxes. If that was theft, why would He tell you to do it?
Faith writes:
About the fact that Christians aren't obligated to tithe, thatis in scripture...
It would be nice if you actually quoted scripture once in a while, seeing as you're almost always wrong about what it says.
Faith writes:
And it is a fact that just as Israel did, Christians give a lot more than a tenth.
That's still irrelevant. The ideal is 100%.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Faith, posted 08-27-2018 3:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 247 of 353 (838845)
08-29-2018 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by Faith
08-29-2018 11:18 AM


Re: Robber Barons
Faith writes:
Abraham spontaneously gave a tithe to Melchizedek, but it was not made a commandment until Moses.
If God never changes and His law is absolute, it doesn't make much sense that something would "become" mandatory at a certain place and time and then "become" voluntary at another place and time.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Faith, posted 08-29-2018 11:18 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Faith, posted 08-29-2018 11:53 AM ringo has replied

  
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