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Author | Topic: Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Scared of socialism? Sheesh, that's the entirety of the Christian message - love thy neighbour and do as you would be done by. This is why Christians get a bad name, they love getting on their knees and hailing the wonders of the Lord, but ignore his instructions because it doesn't suit them. I suppose I shouldn't bother answering this sort of nonsense for the umpteenth time, but I did recently post an article that confirms that conservatives, motivated mostly by religion, give a lot more to charitable causes than liberals. See Message 289. Christianity is NOT socialist because giving is voluntary, not forced on us by authority as socialism is.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
If the Rapture DOES happen soon, or for that matter whenever it happens, the following Tribulation I wouldn't wish on anybody. Although I do think the first part of it may be very welcome to a lot of people because you'll all finally be rid of the main political barrier to a lot of liberal causes. Globalism should have a pretty free course, and socialism on a global scale.
There will probably be some kind of global religion too but it won't be the hated religion of the Bible, more likely a form of paganism, something New Agey "spiritual" and man-centered. (It might call itself "Christianity" though, and I'd guess the Pope would put himself at the head of it). The book-reading program on my local Christian radio station (Pilgrim Radio dot com) just started on a book titled The Coming Pagan Utopia, a collection of essays by different Christian authors edited by Peter Jones, attempting to describe the political system they see coming down the pike these days. They aren't predicating it on Christians being raptured since it's written to help us cope with it when it comes, but if the Rapture does come soon it could describe how things will develop with us out of the way. The first essay describes how the system that develops will necessarily be totalitarian and personal freedoms will be lost because dissent would of course interfere with the program. That might not bother a lot of people who are already persuaded of the utopian vision. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
But it isn't the status quo. You already have some socialist programs. You could advocate catching up with the rest of the civilized world.
Reality shows me that whether or not I advocate a capitalist system, it is likely to remain the status quo until it fails to6tally. Phat writes:
Of course it does have proof. We learned that slavery is wrong, didn't we? Why can't we learn to take care of the poor and sick too? The humanist philosophy that people can learn to be good has no real proof, so far. We do have a problem with religious types like you who advocate against what Jesus taught but maybe even religious types can learn to be good. Or maybe they will be raptured and leave the rest of us in a golden age of humanism.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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frako Member (Idle past 327 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
well if the rapture happens, there would be no homeless people do to all the empty houses, no hunger do to the abundance of food not being eaten, no shortage of clothes or appliances, less pollution, frankly the sooner the rapture happens the better
Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
No. You're the one that assumes being fair to the poor and the sick will hurt your cushy lifestyle. I have said more than once that helping the poor and the sick would improve productivity and help the economy. ... he insists I lower my lifestyle for the benefit of the secular brethren.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Still wrong, no matter how many times you repeat it. The principle is that everything you "own" belongs to God. The authority is God. Christianity is NOT socialist because giving is voluntary, not forced on us by authority as socialism is.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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Absolutely, everything I own belongs to God, but nevertheless He gives me the freedom to give it as I choose.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
That's the spirit!
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
And if you make the wrong choices, you're a goat, no matter how loudly you say, "Lord! Lord!" Socialism helps you to make the right choices. Absolutely, everything I own belongs to God, but nevertheless He gives me the freedom to give it as I choose.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
mandatory socialism is the religion of the antichrist
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Socialism was what Jesus taught.
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
The principle is that everything you "own" belongs to God. The authority is God. And mandatory taxation is no substitute. Don't you get that we don't trust collective humanity to dictate our giving? You can crow all you want about socialist principles being what Jesus taught, but yet you give no importance to the messenger...while I insist that I must hear from Him directly and won't accept some form of government as a substitute. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Phat writes: You bring up that Jesus would likely approve. I can't argue with you guys about this point. Lots do. But of course there's no real argument, just self-justification and rationalisation.
It pisses me off though. Where is my liferaft? You should realise by now that there is no liferaft. This is what we all have and we need to make the most of it. Betting today on a childish myth of a better life after is really foolish. All that promise ever was was a way to allow the downtrodden masses to bear an unbearable inequality between those with wealth and power- most importantly the church - and the proles that actually create the wealth and power for them.
You have said that you have money, Tangle. Would you want to give it all up? Of course not. But you've created a false dichotomy. Humanism and socialism isn't communism - I'm for fair and progressive taxation funding a high level welfare state and a determined efort to create a more equitable society, because we know that inequality creates unhappiness. I always find it weird that Americans search for their much lorded happiness where they know it's least likely to be found.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Straggler Member Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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A lot of Socialism is about a belief in the power of collective action, shared resource and people’s co-operative nature. Capitalism emphasises people’s competitive and individualistic/selfish nature. Both systems are advocated by their proponents as a route to happiness and propsperity for all. The truth is that people are both naturally cooperative and naturally competitive and that the best systems of organising ourselves (societies....) are those that attempt to harness both of these natural proclivities for maximum collective gain. Free markets do demonstrably result in innovation that benefits us all in the right circumstances. Collecting resources on the basis of ability to contribute and distributing on the basis of need works better in other areas. The problems generally arise when people get ideologically tied to one over the other. Trying to apply market ideology to things like health and education, which are better provided collectively and cooperatively, is as misguided as attempts to have state run car manufacturers of the Soviet kind.
Anyway - In general the teachings of Christ do more emphasise notions of cooperatism. I’d expect Christ to advocate education, health, access to justice, the rule of law etc. to all equally or on the basis of need. Rather than ability to pay. I guess in Faith’s view anything called socialism just means evil government dictating what everyone does. But I’d argue a more Scandinavian model where collective resource is used to provide everyone in society with basic standards in key areas (health, education, transport etc.) that ultimately makes the whole economy more productive and the people happier. I think Christ would be a Scandinavian Socialist.....
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's just a stupid right-wing sound bite, without a germ of truth to it. You should be ashamed of yourself. mandatory socialism is the religion of the antichristAnd our geese will blot out the sun.
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