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Author | Topic: Is The World Getting Better Or Worse? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
golden writes: Officially we are at war in the seven countries mentioned according to the unclassified portions of the report that the NY Times got ahold of. What I think is even more important is that Congress is the body that declares a State of War exists and TTBOMK Congress has not declared that a State of War exists between the US and any of those seven nations. We have gotten far too loose with using US aggression outside the limits imposed by our Constitution.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1045 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined:
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There's an 'acknowledge reply' button for those circumstances when you don't know how to form a sentence without admitting error but can't bring yourself to simply ignore a post.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1524 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
And yet here you are not making use of it.
"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1524 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Hi jar,
The US unfortunately has expanded it's ridiculous war on terror. PUBLIC LAW 107—243OCT. 16, 2002AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE AGAINST IRAQ RESOLUTION OF 2002 VerDate 11- And the The Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), Pub. L. 107-40, codified at 115 Stat. 224 and passed as S.J.Res. 23 by the United States Congress on September 14, 2001 Here is a interesting Slate article: Fifteen years after the start of the Iraq war, the U.S. is at war in at least seven countries. Unless we change it the war on terror is anywhere the US says it is against anywhere the US says it is. And yes that is really bad and need to be changed."You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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caffeine writes: My comment that "we're still the violent, brutish thugs we were 200,000 years ago" was in the context of evolution. We are not improving as a species regarding qualities like kindness, generosity, peacefulness, empathy, etc. To whatever degree we as a species possessed those qualities, and their opposites, 200,000 years ago we still possess them to the same degree today. Evolution doesn't work that fast.
I'm not so sure I agree with this. 200,000 years is certainly enough time for noticeable evolutionary change. Oh, most certainly you are correct, 200,000 years is more than enough time to produce significant evolutionary change, depending upon generation time and adaptational pressures. I didn't express myself clearly enough. 200,000 years ago is just the approximate starting point of our species where I think we can agree that long before modern societies life was "nasty, brutish and short," to quote Hobbes. But over the past 200,000 years our species has demonstrated these qualities again and again. Any observed improvements are due to society moderating their expression, not to evolution gradually eliminating them. Proof is ISIS, the Taliban, the Khmer Rouge, Serbian atrocities against Croatia, etc. These qualities emerge again and again when societal oversight breaks down. Evolution has not eliminated these qualities, nor is there even any indication of their moderation. ISIS lined up thousands next to trenches and shot them. Serbians lined up thousands next to trenches and shot them. The Khmer Rouge lined up thousands next to trenches and shot them. The Nazis lined up thousands next to trenches and shot them. In America whites lynched blacks with impunity well up into the 20th century. Racist and/or nationalist groups are springing up world-wide. Milgram's studies of obedience are object lessons for how cruelty can be transmitted throughout a group, and our own Congress's complicity in authoritarian provocations against our way of life also shows this (racial discrimination, family separation, etc.). I see no evidence of evolutionary progress. So with these qualities being demonstrated so recently, not only could evolution not have played a role in their moderation, there is not even any indication that they've moderated. When societies crumble then violence and chaos and cruelty quickly emerge.
It seems very unlikely to me that the degree to which we possess traits like generosity, kindness, empathy etc has remained unchanged since the Pleistocene. If such traits have evolved meaningly over the past 10,000 years, then doesn't it seem that entire regions descending into violent cruelty reminiscent of 10,000 years ago should not happen? My own premise is that we are as a species behaviorally little different than we were 200,000 years ago. Remove the societal veneer and "nasty, brutish" behavior soon appears. There's a cute little Twilight Zone episode called The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street about how easily a society can descend into violence and chaos. Worth watching. --Percy
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I agree with you except I would modify one of your sentences.
When societies crumble then violence and chaos and cruelty quickly reemerge. I agree that the social veneer is kept in place through improved standards of living. Throw us in a depression globally and take away our cushy lives but give us access to the weapons of mass destruction (or the ability to vote into power someone who does) and our similarity to Nazi Germany will not only equal but exceed their barbarity. We may catch ourselves before we slip so far down, but necessity is a mother!Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Throw us in a depression globally and take away our cushy lives but give us access to the weapons of mass destruction (or the ability to vote into power someone who does) and our similarity to Nazi Germany will not only equal but exceed their barbarity. But what about a depression that is not global but just the US?
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Phat writes: I agree that the social veneer is kept in place through improved standards of living. One counterpoint that can be thrown at the idea that a society is only as kind as it can afford to be is to ask why the Depression didn't create a less compassionate country. I think the answer lies in government's approach to the problem when under the Democratic administration of Franklin D. Roosevelt it instituted social security and public works programs to improve employment. Hoover Dam, built by private companies with public funding, was a big Depression era project. I think the government's compassionate attitude toward the people had an outsize influence on the country's attitude in general. Parenthetically, it was another Democratic administration, this time under Lyndon Johnson, that made Medicare universally available. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Grammar.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
The difference between now and then is the monumental national debt. Would you not agree? We couldn't simply create a social safety net out of thin air were it the US alone that suffers the next major depression, as jar seems to suggest.
The challenge for the US citizen in general, and notably the authoritarian populists specifically is to maintain our composure while the rest of the world moves on ahead of us.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Phat writes: The challenge for the US citizen in general, and notably the authoritarian populists specifically is to maintain our composure while the rest of the world moves on ahead of us. Nonsense. The challenge is to stop the madness that is current Conservatism and Neo-Fascism and spend our wealth on improving the general quality of life.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4409 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
I'm not sure how to judge the news that Amazon has joined Apple as companies whose stock values have topped 1 trillion dollars.
If you own stock it is good news. I have never been a fan of Apple or their products, but I've always been a book person so I was an early fan of Amazon.
Amazon Hits $1,000,000,000,000 in Value, Following AppleWhat if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq |
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Someone brought up something or other that caused me to search the EvC database for an appropriate topic...which I found. Lo and behold, I originated it! Percy seems to have framed it the best, however, so I will requote him here to get things rolling!
quote: jar writes: Trade wars and ideology wars with other cultures.
What major conflicts are we in now?jar writes: Anything that affects *me* counts as a major conflict. And I predict that the Trade Wars are early opening salvos as China takes over the US spot of dominant economic global power. So far those would not count as major conflicts in the real world.There is a good video on YouTube about trade wars. Patrick Bet David has street smarts and an intuitive feel for the topic: Tangle writes: In this new book that I am reading, Jesus Among Secular Gods which I will soon start a Book Nook topic on, has a lot to say about the philosophical clash of world views that are already happening. They don't predict a crisis but make a strong case for the world view of the Biblical Christians which the rest of us are so wary of. f we ignore wealth for the moment, I think we can accept that progress in our civilization has been made through the application of our growing knowledge which we've gained using our intelligence. That's a form of evolution, whether it's biological or not is academic. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar writes: If we keep the Populist "Christians" away from the button, we should survive. As an advocate of reformed Judaism and logic, reason, and reality, you won't like the culture war with the Biblical Christians, though. And they all have guns! Come to think of it, so do you! But what about a depression that is not global but just the US?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Anything that affects *me* counts as a major conflict. Okay, that's nice. We'll put it on the icebox.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Percy writes: Quite frankly I think that people are greedier now and more materialistic, in general. I worry about "stuff"...and money...more than my parents did when they were younger. They had nearly nothing and yet were happy. Affluence ruined a generation of Americans and it reflects in our political attitudes and division. One counterpoint that can be thrown at the idea that a society is only as kind as it can afford to be is to ask why the Depression didn't create a less compassionate country.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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