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Author Topic:   Christianity and the End Times
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1255 of 1748 (839336)
09-06-2018 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1247 by jaywill
09-06-2018 3:30 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
Jaywill writes:
Who in history do you find more impressive then Jesus of Nazareth?
I told you, Frodo Baggins. Comparing one fictional character with another. I admit I haven't given it much thought, but it got the attention it deserved.
Now perhaps you'll answer the question I asked you. Did Neil Armstrong walk on the moon?
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1247 by jaywill, posted 09-06-2018 3:30 PM jaywill has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1256 of 1748 (839338)
09-06-2018 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1252 by jaywill
09-06-2018 3:42 PM


Jaywill writes:
Any of you wise guys want to offer YOUR view of where history is headed?
History isn't headed anywhere. For obvious reasons.
You sit along the sidelines sneering at the Bible. Okay, do you want to offer your view of a climax to the world ?
What purpose would making shit up serve? All we know is that the earth will die when the sun dies or we collided with an asteroid or some such. In the meantime we have to concern ourselves with not killing the earth ourselves.
Where do YOU see the world headed ?
Continuing strengthening of our institutions, improving health and longevity, reducing irrational belief systems, reduced poverty and disease and so on. In other words a continuance of human progress - with lots of backwards steps.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1252 by jaywill, posted 09-06-2018 3:42 PM jaywill has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1278 of 1748 (839407)
09-07-2018 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1276 by jaywill
09-07-2018 5:02 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
Jaywill writes:
Okay. To be fair .... here are a couple a versions interpret a typical day as you want it.
Right, you need several interpretations of the word day.
How does that work? If it's an inconvenient version for you it becomes more than the time it takes for one lump of daylight and one of dark it can become something entirely different, like hundreds of years?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1276 by jaywill, posted 09-07-2018 5:02 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1282 by jaywill, posted 09-08-2018 5:24 AM Tangle has not replied
 Message 1283 by jaywill, posted 09-08-2018 5:27 AM Tangle has not replied
 Message 1284 by jaywill, posted 09-08-2018 5:29 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1285 of 1748 (839439)
09-08-2018 6:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1284 by jaywill
09-08-2018 5:29 AM


Re: Back to the End Times
Given that the bible is a collection of simple stories told to simple folk, a 'day' is actually a day. To say otherwise is simply lying to fit whatever it is you need to believe.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1284 by jaywill, posted 09-08-2018 5:29 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1286 by jaywill, posted 09-08-2018 9:35 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 1294 by Phat, posted 09-08-2018 12:28 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 1301 by Faith, posted 09-08-2018 1:36 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1289 of 1748 (839444)
09-08-2018 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1286 by jaywill
09-08-2018 9:35 AM


Re: Back to the End Times
Jaywill writes:
You think the writer of the details of the Tabernacle with all its precise measurements and technical specifications was just a "simple folk".
Yes.
I don't
I guess you've been wrong before.
You think the writer of the voluminous geographic description of the boundaries of the land of Canaan, how its was aportioned up between the twelve tribes was written by "simple folk". I don't.
You think the long histories of genealogical information was written by "simple folk". I don't.
You think the Table of Nations describing how humans divided and settled into tribes, clans, families, social groups was compiled by "simple folk". I don't think great amounts of the Pentateuch reflects the writing of "simple folk."
Is there a reason why I should care what you think? You appear to believe stone-age myths but not fully evidenced modern day events. You're a zealot that thinks that making stuff up about what the bible actually says is somehow Christian. The bible is fiction, not history.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1286 by jaywill, posted 09-08-2018 9:35 AM jaywill has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1302 of 1748 (839462)
09-08-2018 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1294 by Phat
09-08-2018 12:28 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
Phat writes:
but what you do not see is that this is precisely what is predicted.
It's a prediction that knowledge will increase? That makes me a prophet then. And pretty much everyone alive. That's the dumbest 'prediction' imaginable.
The jury of reality is still out on whether the book is warning us not to forget the God Who created and sustains us in favor of our own fallible wisdom and attempt to live a life guided by our own evidence-based progress.
The 'jury of reality' gave it's verdict a couple of hundred years ago. There is no supernatural.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1294 by Phat, posted 09-08-2018 12:28 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1309 of 1748 (839482)
09-09-2018 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1307 by jaywill
09-08-2018 8:19 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
jaywill writes:
I don't think Tangle actually reads the Bible.
Tangle doesn't read the bible. But Tangle has read the bible. Tangle thinks that people who spend large parts of their lives reading the same book over and over have a kind of mental illness.
The Bible has a funny effect on some people. The less they read it the more they fancy themselves to be experts on it.
It only had a funny effect on me when I found out that there were a very large number of grown-ups that thought the little moral stories in it were actually real life events. Eve made from Adams rib. People made whole from dust, talking snakes, giants, animals entering an ark 2 by 2 etc etc etc. That had a VERY funny effect on me.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1307 by jaywill, posted 09-08-2018 8:19 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1310 by jaywill, posted 09-09-2018 3:20 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1312 of 1748 (839487)
09-09-2018 3:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1310 by jaywill
09-09-2018 3:20 AM


Re: Back to the End Times
jaywill writes:
Some of the engineers, physicians and scientists among the people I worship with would be amused to be informed by you that they were mentally ill.
I don't see what being a scientist has got to do with it. People are complicated, they can and do hold contradictory ideas in their minds.
But it is a fact that scientists are less likely to be infected by bad religious ideas than others.
You also don't know about the RHEMA and the LOGOS of the word of God. God is living. God illuminates on His word by, like, breathing fresh speaking with it to our hearts.
The is the rhema of the living Spirit's enlivening the words of the Bible to us.
So it never get old because the spiritual life within us is always fresh and never grows old.
I certainly don't know that, what's more, neither do you. That's the stuff of delusional belief systems.
I'm still waiting for this to hit me like a ton of bricks. It seems to impress you
God building a wife for Adam out of Adam is too profound.
It's also simply bloody wrong. We know that Adam and Eve never existed and we know how people evolved. You're beliefs are childish and wrong. You're whole belief system is built on an error.
It is a window into the whole meaning of human existence.
It's a window into the deluded mind.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1310 by jaywill, posted 09-09-2018 3:20 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1317 by jaywill, posted 09-09-2018 9:19 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1313 of 1748 (839488)
09-09-2018 3:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1311 by jaywill
09-09-2018 3:25 AM


jaywill writes:
Somebody ask Tangle to put three consecutive sentences together explaining WHY he is here in the universe.
I'm here jaywill, you can ask me directly. Do you imaginine yourself preaching to a congrgation here?
And why we're about it, did Armstrong walk on the moon? If you refuse to answer for a third time, I will conclude that you don't believe that he did.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1311 by jaywill, posted 09-09-2018 3:25 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1316 by jaywill, posted 09-09-2018 8:07 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 1323 of 1748 (839517)
09-09-2018 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1316 by jaywill
09-09-2018 8:07 AM


jaywill writes:
Now, I have come to think it was - One small step for man and one giant leap for American propaganda.
The problem here, jaywill, is your credulousness. You are prepared to believe the truly incredible that has been proven beyond rational doubt to be wrong whilst not believing things that are fully and factually evidenced. In short you're irrational and deluded.
I consider myself open minded about counter arguments.
That was so good I put it in orange bold for you. You missed a chance there.
Now you can put together two or three sentences to tell us what you have INSTEAD of the teaching of Jesus Christ and the prophecy of the climax of human history.
There's a presumption in that question that's typically patronising of you believers. The vast majority of people in the world do not need anything instead of your Jesus Christ and never have and never will. They either have their own equally crazy belief system or no belief at all.
In my case it's no belief at all of course, I don't need your crutch of future promises of everlasting life to enjoy my life here and now. My life is fulfilled by my career, my family and friends and various other interests. It's productive, useful and busy and I don'twaste any of it on my knees worshipping false gods. But thanks for asking.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1316 by jaywill, posted 09-09-2018 8:07 AM jaywill has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1325 of 1748 (839519)
09-09-2018 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1317 by jaywill
09-09-2018 9:19 AM


Re: Back to the End Times
Jaywill writes:
So I ask you again. Who in human history do you think displayed more of a sober minded grasp of proper priorities on reasoning, ethics, morality, and human purpose than Jesus Christ ?
You can ask as often as you like, I given you my answer twice now.
Who do you find to be more sober minded?
This time don't hide behind The Hobbit characters.
Frodo is a Lord of the Rings character, do try to keep up. He drove evil out of Middle Earth and saved the Shire which is more than your fictional hero did. Your storybook hero just made a series of promises that didn't amount to anything.
Have you studied what other great minds in the world have had to say about Jesus?
Oh yes, I particularly like what CS Lewis has to say. He's better at making shit up than most, but not one of them have any more knowledge about JC that you or I do. All that is know is in that one book. The rest is literary criticism.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1317 by jaywill, posted 09-09-2018 9:19 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1326 by jaywill, posted 09-09-2018 7:38 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 1327 by Faith, posted 09-09-2018 8:01 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 1331 by jaywill, posted 09-10-2018 2:14 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(3)
Message 1334 of 1748 (839537)
09-10-2018 2:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1327 by Faith
09-09-2018 8:01 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
Faith writes:
C S Lewis also said somewhere something like how his knowledge of literature gives him the ability to tell that the Bible is not fiction.
Well that's real proof isn't it? Do'h.
He alo said this
quote:
Say what you like, we shall be told, the apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, ‘this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.’ And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else.
It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1327 by Faith, posted 09-09-2018 8:01 PM Faith has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1335 of 1748 (839538)
09-10-2018 3:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1331 by jaywill
09-10-2018 2:14 AM


Re: Back to the End Times
jaywill writes:
Maybe you have some essentially religious beliefs about the claims of scientists at NASA. Maybe you piously preserve some modern superstitions.
There's a very large problem here jaywill. The problem is that you believe a series of imposible events that alegedly happened thousands of years ago without any evience at all other than they're in a book of myths written by anonymous authors.
You believe stuff like talking snakes, miraculous cures, global floods deliberately caused, people being made out of dust - stuff we KNOW can't happen, stuff we know beyond doubt didn't happen, but you don't believe modern day stuff we know CAN happen and that we have huge quantities of evidence for.
You're both credulous and a motivated thinker, nothing you say can be trusted.
I'm not watching your video, if you have something more to say about the moon landings you need to say it; start a new thread on it, I'm sure it will be very popular.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1331 by jaywill, posted 09-10-2018 2:14 AM jaywill has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1344 of 1748 (839582)
09-10-2018 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1326 by jaywill
09-09-2018 7:38 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
Jaywill writes:
So your implied answer is that Jesus of Nazareth was not a person in history.
I think it a little more likely than not that he existed as a person. There were many of them around at the time. What is said about him in the book of stories is almost entirely fiction.
No such person ever lived at all ?
As above.
Please note, my comments about your book are not simply about the part relating to your guy; pretty much all my criticisms so far have related to snakes, floods, creation, giants etc. Points you consistently ignore.
You observed that no such person as Jesus of Nazareth ever lived
Don't make stuff up.
though we have more reason to hold he lived then we do that Alexander the Great lived or surely as much that Julius Caesar lived.
That's just cliched bullshit. Rebutted a million times.
Wherever you got your education you should go get your money back.
And try not to be a dickhead. It'll take some effort.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1326 by jaywill, posted 09-09-2018 7:38 PM jaywill has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1345 of 1748 (839586)
09-10-2018 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1341 by Phat
09-10-2018 4:41 PM


Re: Making Christians Look Crazy
Phat writes:
The whole moon landing argument makes our side look bad, to be honest.
Crazies don't usually limit their craziness to a single area - they really go for it. It happens when you abandon reason. It's always the give away - they're fruit loops.
As for the Rapture, I wont rule it out entirely but i'm not worried about setting any dates. I just try and do the best I can where I'm at.
You won't rule anything out will you Phat no matter how daft? You won't rule it out even after Faith's failed prophecy. And all the others.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1341 by Phat, posted 09-10-2018 4:41 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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