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Author Topic:   Christianity and the End Times
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1196 of 1748 (839259)
09-05-2018 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1190 by Phat
09-05-2018 4:03 PM


Re: Motives or Content?
Phat writes:
Evidently, Pilate didn't understand either...though he was honest enough to declare to the Jews that Jesus was innocent!
Innocent of what? Jesus was accused of claiming to be King of the Jews. Apparently Pilate didn't believe that He had confessed.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1190 by Phat, posted 09-05-2018 4:03 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1201 of 1748 (839264)
09-05-2018 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1192 by Phat
09-05-2018 4:07 PM


Re: Motives or Content?
Phat writes:
Additionally, John 14:5 makes a case that the messenger was, in fact, the message:
"No man comes to the father except by the way, the truth and the life." The way, as He explained more than once, is by feeding the hungry, healing the sick, etc. The life is living your life with the community in mind, not just yourself. The truth is the message, not the messenger.
Jesus was an example of the way, the truth and the life. That doesn't absolve you from following His way, accepting the truth and living your own life according to His teaching.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1192 by Phat, posted 09-05-2018 4:07 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1202 by Phat, posted 09-05-2018 4:30 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1203 of 1748 (839266)
09-05-2018 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1202 by Phat
09-05-2018 4:30 PM


Re: Motives or Content?
Phat writes:
I still dont trust secular government nor human motives for keeping the world safe from destruction.
I never promised you anything but blood, sweat, toil and tears. The straight and narrow isn't guaranteed to be easy.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1202 by Phat, posted 09-05-2018 4:30 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1239 of 1748 (839315)
09-06-2018 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1212 by jaywill
09-05-2018 8:59 PM


Re: Jar champions the Serpent
jaywill writes:
Why do you think God called out to Adam - "Where are you ?" ?
The previous fellowship was lost and degrading more and more. Separation.
Well, that makes no sense at all. It was God who asked Adam where he was. Are you saying that God didn't know? If Adam was separated from God, then maybe he couldn't find God, but you're suggesting that God was diminished by "the Fall".

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1212 by jaywill, posted 09-05-2018 8:59 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1243 by jaywill, posted 09-06-2018 3:12 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 1240 of 1748 (839316)
09-06-2018 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1231 by jaywill
09-06-2018 7:07 AM


Re: Back to the End Times
jaywill writes:
And you believe that Neil Armstrong walked on the moon.
We know HOW Neil Armstrong walked on the moon.
jaywill writes:
How many atheists does it take to change a light bulb ?
None. They figure that if they wait long enough the light bulb will change itself.
How many Christians does it take to change a light bulb?
None. They just pray until Jesus changes it.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1231 by jaywill, posted 09-06-2018 7:07 AM jaywill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1241 by Tangle, posted 09-06-2018 12:21 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1246 of 1748 (839323)
09-06-2018 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1243 by jaywill
09-06-2018 3:12 PM


Re: Jar champions the Serpent
jaywill writes:
God knew where Adam was.
You're the one who asked the question. I answered it: If God was separated from Adam, then God had to be the one doing the separating. God was the one with the power.
jaywill writes:
You never saw a parent ask a child something like "What are you DOING?"
OR "Where are you?" when the parent knows that the child knows it should be elsewhere from where it is ?
See above. If the parent knows where the child is, HE is the one doing the separating. HE is the one who is responsible for maintaining the relationship.
jaywill writes:
After being away, I find the old crowd has gotten more rather than less ignorant.
It's a poor teacher who blames his students.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1243 by jaywill, posted 09-06-2018 3:12 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1249 by jaywill, posted 09-06-2018 3:37 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1251 of 1748 (839330)
09-06-2018 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1247 by jaywill
09-06-2018 3:30 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
jaywill writes:
Who in history do you find more impressive then Jesus of Nazareth?
For that question to work, you'd have to demonstrate that Jesus was historic. Maybe He was but you'd have difficulty demonstrating it.
He's probably more impressive than Holden Caulfield or Tom Joad.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1247 by jaywill, posted 09-06-2018 3:30 PM jaywill has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1254 of 1748 (839334)
09-06-2018 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1252 by jaywill
09-06-2018 3:42 PM


jaywill writes:
You sit along the sidelines sneering at the Bible.
Speaking for myself, I'm only sneering at your abuse of the Bible. I quite like the Bible and I wish you did too.
jaywill writes:
Okay, do you want to offer your view of a climax to the world ?
The phrase, "not with a bang but a whimper," comes to mind.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1252 by jaywill, posted 09-06-2018 3:42 PM jaywill has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1265 of 1748 (839371)
09-07-2018 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1249 by jaywill
09-06-2018 3:37 PM


Re: Jar champions the Serpent
jaywill writes:
But some of us realize that behind the Universe is a Perfect God Who cannot fellowship with sin unless the sinner is redeemed and justified.
That seems like a silly limitation to put on God.
jaywill writes:
You imagine no God.
Or you imagine an imperfect God.
I'm not doing the imagining. I'm going by the description of God that most Christians use. They describe Him as "all-powerful".
But some, like you, have to diminish His power to "explain" their ludicrous theology.
jaywill writes:
God being a goodness above which is impossible, will not be one with iniquity, sin, transgression.
And yet He creates evil.
jaywill writes:
The beauty of the rest of the Bible is that rather than give up on man God had a plan of eternal salvation, eternal redemption, and reconciliation.
But there's no reason to "give up" on man. He could just accept His creation as He made it. Most parents don't give up on their children because of a few flaws.
jaywill writes:
... one who did not impose Himself on His creature but gifted him with a free will to choose God out of want and love.
But if you make the wrong choice it's eternal punishment. That's no "free" choice.
jaywill writes:
Maybe you'll never get it.
I'll never "get" that 2 + 2 = 5. Because it isn't.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1249 by jaywill, posted 09-06-2018 3:37 PM jaywill has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1266 of 1748 (839373)
09-07-2018 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1262 by Faith
09-06-2018 9:12 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
Faith writes:
Whoever suppressed the Indians it wasn't Protestant Christians.
Here is a shred of evidence.
Canada is a largely Catholic country and I know you have nothing but contempt for Anglicans. The United Church is an amalgamation of Methodists, Congregationalists, Presbyterians and Evangelical United Brethren. You'll also find some Mennonites and Baptists in the list.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1262 by Faith, posted 09-06-2018 9:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1269 of 1748 (839378)
09-07-2018 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1267 by jaywill
09-07-2018 12:14 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
jaywill writes:
Literally the translation - ... you will surely die is more like - Dying you will die.
Are you deliberately ignoring, "in the day that thou eatest thereof "?
For your interpretation to work, you have to mangle TWO things in the text. You have to mangle die into "spiritual death" and you have to mangle a day into nine hundred years. Occam must be spinning in his grave.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1267 by jaywill, posted 09-07-2018 12:14 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1271 by jaywill, posted 09-07-2018 2:11 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1272 of 1748 (839382)
09-07-2018 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1271 by jaywill
09-07-2018 2:11 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
jaywill writes:
The Recovery Version translates YOM in Gen. 2:4 as WHEN.
The NIV and NLT also renders YOM there as WHEN.
If anything, "when" is a narrower timeline than "day". If you say, "I'll see you when I get there," you don't mean nine hundred years later. "At the time you eat of it you will surely die," in no way suggests nine hundred years later. It's AT the time, not "long after the time". You're mangling the preposition in an attempt to justify your previous mangling. Oh, what a tangled web you weave....

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1271 by jaywill, posted 09-07-2018 2:11 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1273 by jaywill, posted 09-07-2018 2:29 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1274 of 1748 (839384)
09-07-2018 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1273 by jaywill
09-07-2018 2:29 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
jaywill writes:
I don't see you as having any case.
And yet you present nothing to refute my case. Show us some evidence that "when" can mean nine hundred years later.
jaywill writes:
Desperation to assure yourself that God is a liar and the Devil is a champion of truth in Genesis doesn't work.
You're the one who's desparate to assure yourself that the Bible doesn't say what it says. I have no axe to grind. I don't care what the Bible says any more than I care what Dilbert says.
Genesis says what it says. If that doesn't tally with what you think it "should" say, that's too bad - but it still says what it says. They didn't die "when" they ate the fruit.
Edited by ringo, : Spellingd.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1273 by jaywill, posted 09-07-2018 2:29 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1276 by jaywill, posted 09-07-2018 5:02 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1277 of 1748 (839406)
09-07-2018 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1276 by jaywill
09-07-2018 5:02 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
jaywill writes:
Okay I gave you examples of the way you want to understand it.
It isn' t the way I want to understand it. It's the way it's written.
If you were honest, you'd acknowledge that the word "when" does not refer to nine hundred years in the future. YOU would not use it that way, so why do you pretend that the Bible would? Your child says he's hungry and you tell him he can eat "when" he gets home. You do not mean nine hundred years in the future. You don't even mean sometime within the 24-hour day. "When" is a specific point on the time line - when you get home, when you eat the fruit. It is not the equivalent of "eventually".
Translating the word as "when" instead of "day" makes your interpretation worse, not better.
jaywill writes:
If you don't care for what the Bible says I don't know why your haunting the Bible Study room.
I'm here to point out your errors. I may have to hire an assistant.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1276 by jaywill, posted 09-07-2018 5:02 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1280 by jaywill, posted 09-08-2018 4:32 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1290 of 1748 (839447)
09-08-2018 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1280 by jaywill
09-08-2018 4:32 AM


Re: Back to the End Times
jaywill writes:
We're through.
You've made my job simplier.
Yes, ignoring the truth is simple. If there was any substance to your position, you wouldn't be so quick to run away.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1280 by jaywill, posted 09-08-2018 4:32 AM jaywill has not replied

  
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