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Author | Topic: Christianity and the End Times | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
To the peanut gallery:
I would argue that all of this is on topic in that until it can be established that there is or is not an end time approaching theologically, humanity must deal with the basic issues regarding religion, belief, truth, and consensus. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo |
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes:
Some critics would argue that your whole rabbit trail of declaring that the snake tells the truth and that God lies is perverting the Bible. Yet we respectfully give you the platform even though you insult our intelligence.
I have no respect for those perverting the Bible and Christianity. What does any of that have to do with Christianity and the End Times? It establishes who said it...whether it was actually God talking through human authors or whether it is simply a product of human imagination. If it is the former, we may well pay attention to end times possibilities. If it is the latter, we still need to be responsible, yet not so religious.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You squirmed out of that one! good answer, and a support for your secular belief...though I still dont trust secular government nor human motives for keeping the world safe from destruction. I tend to agree with Percys argument
here regarding the behavioral inclinations of a global populace threatened with poverty. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
OK you have a point. The content and motive both matter.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jaywill writes:
God has a way of communicating a profound truth to the largest number of people in all generations.ringo writes: At last, you are arguing that God is hypothetical and is brighter than many believers give Him credit for...but wait...if I recall correctly, you don't believe He exists. What makes YOU so sophisticated? And He can do it through more sophisticated means than talking animals.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tangle writes: The mistake that you are making is believing that since folk are no longer simple and understand science that they can enlighten the rest of the species, liberating them from "Bronze Age Myths" and finally moving our species forward to a better time (which you have evidence is happening)....but what you do not see is that this is precisely what is predicted. Given that the bible is a collection of simple stories told to simple folk, a 'day' is actually a day. To say otherwise is simply lying to fit whatever it is you need to believe.
Daniel 12:4 writes: The jury of reality is still out on whether the book is warning us not to forget the God Who created and sustains us in favor of our own fallible wisdom and attempt to live a life guided by our own evidence-based progress. But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: And Daniels writers were sophisticated enough to see that knowledge would increase, though I doubt they had visions of an internet, science, and evidence-based thinking apart from the need for a God. I was saying that the Hebrews thousands of years ago were sophisticated enough to understand that a talking snake was a literary device.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Misdirecting the audience again? How could I worship gods that exist only in literary imagination? I'm talking about the one we spell with three capital letters. The One Who created all seen and unseen. Certainly NOT the one who lied, while the allegorical snake told the truth! Which one do you worship?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jaywill writes:
This is the One Who is and Who was and Who is coming.Faith writes: The reason to discuss the beast and Antichrist is so that those who go through the Tribulation will recognize better what's going on. jaywill, what does it mean when it says the Beast was and is not and yet is?We know that Jesus was, is,and will come. I have my own theories as to what it means, but I thought I would get your interpretation....and by all means, focus on Christ...He is all we really have! jar can laugh about Loki, Coyote and other literary plot devices all he wants, but his logic wont save him from the world of the future nor will it get him through any problems that come up. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Not only do you acknowledge it, you deify it.
I acknowledge the evidence... jar writes: I am relying on the Spirit which lives within me. Reality is not always obvious nor evident. Call me crazy. Sometimes I feel as if I am. YOU are relying solely on YOUR fallible wisdom and ignoring the evidence... The God that you market, however, likely doesn't care what I believe but only on what I do.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Please present the evidence that I deify any evidence. Do you even know what deify means? Allow me to express my assertion more precisely. I certainly know that you dont literally worship evidence...that would be silly, would it not? Lets expand on what I may mean...I'm making an assertion that I need to define. Using Google dictionary and breaking down synonyms, I will attempt to clarify.
worship, regard, or treat (someone or something) as a god.
Perhaps you revere evidence. You hold it in reverence.worship revere venerate reverence hold sacred immortalize idolize lionize extol hero-worship idealize glorify aggrandize overpraise put on a pedestal 1.Revere-feel deep respect or admiration for (something). You feel deep respect or admiration. But for what? Logic, reason, and reality that youhave cultivated? That you earned? Perhaps you venerate evidence. 1.regard with great respect; revere. Essentially, I am asserting that you hold logic, reason, and reality (your own that YOU have earned and cultivated) in high regard. And how can you know anything about the Spirit which lives within you (whatever that even means) except through your own human fallible wisdom? If by this you mean how can we know anything about ourselves except through our own perceptions, I am pointing out that you venerate ...you feel deep respect and admiration--for human wisdom within yourself and others. It is evident that you respect your own arguments or you wouldnt cling to them and make them repeatedly. I may well ask you how can you not know anything about the Spirit which lives within you? You will likely respond---as you always do---with a canned response:
[i]How would I know that it was "spirit" and not a bad burrito or satan or _______(insert character here) and I would say that "it" was in you. You would ask how that was even possible. It's obvious and evident that what is written in a story is what is written in that story. So tell me this---if you had to revere one character over another, would you revere the character telling the truth or would you revere the character lying? Then you can explain to us why you revere the snake. Or show us the evidence why you do not revere the snake...because you certainly dont revere God."Au Contraire!!" jar shouts. "Look at what I do! Christianity is all about what we do rather than what we believe!" All I see you doing is cussing, reasserting your own argument and ego, which you revere...and denigrating the opinions of your opponents while attempting to insult their intelligence or lack thereof.
jar writes: Thus, you reassert your argument that Jesus was simply human...nothing more or less. If you actually read the Bible accounts of Jesus it would be hard to claim he showed a sober-minded grasp of proper priorities on reasoning, ethics, morality, and human purpose. He does exhibit normal human characteristics like humor, anger, petulance, regret, and selfishness. And few if any of his assertions on morality or ethics were new or not simply assertions made hundreds of years earlier by the Buddha, Confucius, Mencius, and Lao Tzu. So getting back to my question:if you had to revere one character over another, would you revere the character telling the truth or would you revere the character lying? Then you can explain to us why you revere the snake. Or show us the evidence why you do not revere the snake...because you certainly don't revere God. And it's on you to show us the evidence that you do. Edited by Phat, : No reason given. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: sometimes its fun arguing with you! My best guess is this sentence: Stop and try to think Phat. See if you can figure out how you are misrepresenting what I post. If you can figure that out then ask yourself WHY you constantly misrepresent what others post? (HINT, I explain just above how you are misrepresenting my positions, see if you can find it.)
quote: Was that it? Am I making up your positions to add to my fantasy?
They are characters, plot devices in the story. They have no reality beyond being plot devices in the story. So where do you get your idea of who God actually is? The Nicene Creed? Your beloved late Mama? Joe Wood? Did the idea not originate within you?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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The whole moon landing argument makes our side look bad, to be honest. As for the Rapture, I wont rule it out entirely but i'm not worried about setting any dates. I just try and do the best I can where I'm at.
Of course I'm thought to be crazy also...which I will concur with.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jaywill writes: I will consider your argument, based on your willingness to present the case as you understand it. Granted the whole idea seems preposterous to me, laden with conspiracy theorist type stuff. BUT...I also am skeptical of the classified informational behavior of the United States government and see a parallelism with the shady details regarding Roswell, New Mexico, and the whole UFO story. To be honest, I believe that the actual moon landings happened. I also do not believe that there has ever been contact with extraterrestrial beings. But I am skeptical of high level classified information being covered up by the government.
I don't trust anyone who thinks this is a slam dunk matter either way. So we are not being told everything. I don't think we ever are being told everything. 9-11 still brings some questions to my mind, as does the whole Kennedy assassination controversy. Not that they were necessarily faked so much as they were embellished. But despite my being a believer in an actual living and eternal Jesus Christ, I often am incredulous over the distinct possibility that humanity is and always has been involved in an internal and societal spiritual war of sorts. It is not always clear who the good guys are if, in fact, there can be said to be such a group or even such a country.
jaywill writes: I don't trust anyone who is SO SURE that he has no remaining questions. The truth may be a mixture somewhere in the middle. As believers, can we allow the same criteria regarding the apologetics and the truth behind the Bible? While I most definitely believe that GOD exists, is real and has been subjectively shown to be personal towards me, I won't deny the objective critics who question me on such matters. What about you, jaywill? Where do you stand in regards to facts vs your beliefs?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: The question is whether or not God and Jesus are a creation of man or whether there has actually been a communication between the Creator of all seen and unseen and humanity at some point. And once again, it still has absolutely nothing to do with the topic beyond the fact that those who doubt we went to the moon are as disconnected from reality or evidence-based decision making as the fools that believe there will be some rapture or that the Bible is not simply the creation of man. I believe that there has, though cannot prove it. You point out the reasons why it was contrived as a story in order to market a religion. But what about the same behavior in our modern government? How many stories have they tried to market? Can you believe that reality suggests that we all are humans and at the end of the day on the same page? OR...is there a group at the top globally who desires to control the masses for "their own good" and who classifies information in order to gain the money and the power to further their own interests?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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