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Author | Topic: Christianity and the End Times | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
jaywill writes:
And they were bright enough to see the clue that the story is not to be taken literally. You, unfortunately, are not.
Thousands of years ago people knew JUST AS WELL that animals are not suppose to talk. jaywill writes:
And He can do it through more sophisticated means than talking animals. God has a way of communicating a profound truth to the largest number of people in all generations.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jaywill writes:
God has a way of communicating a profound truth to the largest number of people in all generations.ringo writes: At last, you are arguing that God is hypothetical and is brighter than many believers give Him credit for...but wait...if I recall correctly, you don't believe He exists. What makes YOU so sophisticated? And He can do it through more sophisticated means than talking animals.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I don't believe Long John Silver exists either. But if jaywill insisted that Long John Silver flew a balloon to Kansas in Treasure Island, I could point out that he was wrong.
At last, you are arguing that God is hypothetical and is brighter than many believers give Him credit for...but wait...if I recall correctly, you don't believe He exists. Phat writes:
I was saying that the Hebrews thousands of years ago were sophisticated enough to understand that a talking snake was a literary device. What makes YOU so sophisticated?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Tangle writes: The mistake that you are making is believing that since folk are no longer simple and understand science that they can enlighten the rest of the species, liberating them from "Bronze Age Myths" and finally moving our species forward to a better time (which you have evidence is happening)....but what you do not see is that this is precisely what is predicted. Given that the bible is a collection of simple stories told to simple folk, a 'day' is actually a day. To say otherwise is simply lying to fit whatever it is you need to believe.
Daniel 12:4 writes: The jury of reality is still out on whether the book is warning us not to forget the God Who created and sustains us in favor of our own fallible wisdom and attempt to live a life guided by our own evidence-based progress. But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: And Daniels writers were sophisticated enough to see that knowledge would increase, though I doubt they had visions of an internet, science, and evidence-based thinking apart from the need for a God. I was saying that the Hebrews thousands of years ago were sophisticated enough to understand that a talking snake was a literary device.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What makes you think they didn't have evidence-based thinking? ... I doubt they had visions of an internet, science, and evidence-based thinking...And our geese will blot out the sun.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1941 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined:
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quote: Yes, Antichrist, Shmantichrist. I do get a little tired of going though Revelation like the centerpiece is this guy, the beast, the Antichrist and his false prophet. I'm sorry. I'll tell you what I would really like to spend some time on. It is the positive aspects of Christ as He addresses each of the seven churches. This stuff is not insignificant. There are so very many talks about the beasts, the frogs, the demons, the locusts, the Antichrist, etc. etc.. That certainly has its place. But it doesn't have the only place. Do you see how rich are the descriptions of Christ as He addresses the need of each of the seven local churches according to what He IS? Oh, that there were a few eager readers to talk about this. He draws most of His recommendations from John's initial vision.
12 And I turned to see the voice that spoke with me; and when I turned, I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 And in the amidst of the lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment reaching to the feet, and girded about at the breasts with a golden girdle. 14 And His head and hair were as white as white wool, as snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire; 15 And His feet were like shining bronze, as having been fired in a furnace; and His voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 And He had in His right hand seven stars; and out of His mouth proceeded a sharp two-edged sword; and His face shone as the sun shines in its power. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead; and He placed His right hand on me, saying, Do not fear; I am the First and the Last 18 And the living One; and I became dead, and behold, I am living forever and ever; and I have the keys of death and of Hades. See all these wonderful qualifications of Who Christ is ? We could spend a week just talking about all the qualifications of Jesus Christ as this Great High Priest. Each aspect is so meaningful. Nothing here should be taken for granted.What a Christ. What an all-encompassing Overcoming Lord and Savior. This is the One Who is and Who was and Who is coming. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1941 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
Faith,
Oh by the way, I cannot remember who it was, but I think they were correct that the vision of the Son of Man coming on the clouds to the Ancient of Days is not a vision of His descending to the earth. I think I recall someone saying something like that. about Dan. 7. (albeit skeptically) This is Christ coming on the clouds in His ascension to the Father to be inaugurated in heaven as King of kings and Lord of all. It corresponds to Revelation chapter 5 . His is COMING UP into the third heavens on the cloud to appear before the Ancient of Days.
Daniel 7:13,14 13 I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaventhere came one like a Son of Man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before Him. 14 And to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him; His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom one that shall not be destroyed. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The reason to discuss the beast and Antichrist is so that those who go through the Tribulation will recognize better what's going on.
But I'm OK with your not wanting to discuss it.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I don't remember that coming up but clearly it does refer to the Lord's ascension to the throne of God and not His descent to earth.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Given that the bible is a collection of simple stories told to simple folk... Where do you get such an idea? Recently I heard a former professor of English talk about her discovery of how sophisticated the Bible is as literature,k which she discovered when she decided to read it in order to debunk it. Instead she recognized that it is a "supernatural" work and it converted her to Christ...
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: but what you do not see is that this is precisely what is predicted. It's a prediction that knowledge will increase? That makes me a prophet then. And pretty much everyone alive. That's the dumbest 'prediction' imaginable.
The jury of reality is still out on whether the book is warning us not to forget the God Who created and sustains us in favor of our own fallible wisdom and attempt to live a life guided by our own evidence-based progress. The 'jury of reality' gave it's verdict a couple of hundred years ago. There is no supernatural.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: The jury of reality is still out on whether the book is warning us not to forget the God Who created and sustains us in favor of our own fallible wisdom and attempt to live a life guided by our own evidence-based progress.
If you wish to continue worshiping Coyote and Loki then that's fine but stop pretending they are not your God.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Misdirecting the audience again? How could I worship gods that exist only in literary imagination? I'm talking about the one we spell with three capital letters. The One Who created all seen and unseen. Certainly NOT the one who lied, while the allegorical snake told the truth! Which one do you worship?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jaywill writes:
This is the One Who is and Who was and Who is coming.Faith writes: The reason to discuss the beast and Antichrist is so that those who go through the Tribulation will recognize better what's going on. jaywill, what does it mean when it says the Beast was and is not and yet is?We know that Jesus was, is,and will come. I have my own theories as to what it means, but I thought I would get your interpretation....and by all means, focus on Christ...He is all we really have! jar can laugh about Loki, Coyote and other literary plot devices all he wants, but his logic wont save him from the world of the future nor will it get him through any problems that come up. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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