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Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 91 of 1677 (839463)
09-08-2018 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Tangle
09-08-2018 1:55 PM


Maybe a cup of coffee and a slice of toast.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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 Message 93 by caffeine, posted 09-08-2018 4:03 PM Faith has replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1025 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 92 of 1677 (839468)
09-08-2018 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Phat
09-08-2018 4:51 AM


Wordification
I am having difficulty grasping quite why, but I find myself deeply irritated by the stupid neologisms 'Oneism' and 'Twoism'
quote:
Behind these Eastern spiritual techniques is a Oneist worldview in conflict with biblical spirituality, which I call Twoism.
I'm think what's mostly annoying me is that I feel the author has invented these ridiculous words to give the false impression that there is some original thought or insight in what he writes. We already have words for these concepts - monism and dualism.
Edited by caffeine, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 09-08-2018 4:51 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1025 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 93 of 1677 (839469)
09-08-2018 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Faith
09-08-2018 2:08 PM


Maybe a cup of coffee and a slice of toast.
But what will you put on the toast?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Faith, posted 09-08-2018 2:08 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 94 of 1677 (839471)
09-08-2018 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by ringo
09-08-2018 1:20 PM


Re: The First Bus
what truth are YOU referring to? That society will enter into a golden age if we simply give to each according to our ability and receive according to our needs? That God and religion are outdated and unnecessary? That the message is that we can do it without Him? The snake is an effective preacher!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by ringo, posted 09-08-2018 1:20 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 95 of 1677 (839472)
09-08-2018 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by caffeine
09-08-2018 4:01 PM


Re: Wordification
Im not sure if the definitions are the same.
Monism is any philosophical view which holds that there is unity in a given field of inquiry, where this is not to be expected. Thus, some philosophers may hold that the universe is really just one thing, despite its many appearances and diversities; or theology may support the view that there is one God, with many manifestations in different religions. Hinduism is considered to be primary proponent of Monism. In the Hindu religion, Brahman is the eternal, unchanging, infinite, imminent, and transcendent reality which is the Divine Ground of all matter, energy, time, space, being, and everything beyond in this Universe. The nature of Brahman is described as transpersonal, personal and impersonal by different philosophical schools and the Brahman religious belief is just seen as different paths to the one god.
From the author Jones point of view:
The Church must understand the present struggle between the Gospel and the growing, multi-faceted opposition to it in our time. In 1991, returning to the States after seventeen years in France, I was shocked to discover a deeply anti-Christian spiritual movement incubating in America, once the fortress of Christianity in the modern world. Reading voraciously to understand what the spiritual progressives were saying, I was driven to a deceptively simple text Romans 1:25. Here Paul sums up in 25 Greek words the bedrock nature of spiritual conflict, be it in the Garden, in his own time, or, by implication, in ours. In this verse he lays out an irreducible age-old conflict between two opposing world views:
1. the worship and service of creation;
2. the worship and service of the Creator.
These two options sum up the whole of reality. A British theologian, Colin Gunton, without reference to Paul, said of the question of origins:
There are, probably, ultimately only two possible answersthat the universe is the result of creation by a free personal agency, or that in some way or other it creates itself.
Logically, these are the only two possible religions, or worldviews, as Paul affirms.
Over-Simplified Reductionism?
I’ve never heard anyone charge Paul with being over-simplified, but some suggest that the terms One-ism and Two-ism are indeed simplistic. Though these terms only bring Paul’s antithesis into focus for today, some say they fail to account for the complexity of reality.
Let me explain.
One-ism:
Worship of creation grants to all created forms the same divine quality. If everything in creation can be worshiped, then everything must share the divine nature. Everything is One.
Two-ism:
Worship of the Creator implies that reality is divided into two types of being, as Paul teachesthe transcendent, uncreated eternal Creator, and finite creatures. Everything is Two.
There are no other possible religions.
According to Paul, there are only two pure, radically opposed, irreconcilable religious systems. You cannot practice both at the same time!
The truth may be simple, but people are complicated. They hover inconsistently between these two possible worldview trajectories. Satan is the most consistent One-ist. Jesus was the only true Two-ist.
But, you will say, What about Two-ist Jews and Muslims? Alas, anyone who denies the personal Trinitarian Creator becomes a practical One-ist, worshiping an impersonal, unknowable singularity. This leads to various forms of spiritual One-ism, such as Jewish Kabbalah and Islamic Sufism, where the adherents, hungry for love, turn to the god within.
Atheists are materialistic One-ists, who reject the transcendent Lord, and worship a universe that takes care of itself.
Even evangelical Christians unwittingly embrace various One-ist spiritual techniques. Rick Warren endorses Centering Prayer, a practice that the Jewish Hindu, Philip Goldberg (author of the must-read American Veda) characterizes as the highest level of Indian spirituality. Richard Rohr collaborates with non-dual shamans, zen-Buddhists, Sufis and Kabbalists, while not so unwittingly teaching non-dual/One-ist spirituality to evangelical Christians across the land.
Some of those evangelicals are becoming One-ists about sexuality. Rohr, in his acceptance of homosexuality as normative, has presided over a wedding ceremony for a lesbian couple. A professor at the evangelical Messiah College, Jenell Williams Paris, in her book, The End of Sexual Identity (IVP, 2010; see my review on Amazon) prefers the One-ist description of sexuality of the depraved Alfred Kinsey as a continuum of five elements, because it does justice to sexual fluidity and to sex as a spectrum. The Two-ist sexual binary of Genesis 1:27 is gone.
Thus monism is akin to pantheism, minus the awareness of divinity.
Dualism implies that good and evil are equal, or that God and satan are equal....as I understand it. Jesus acknowledged that there is One Truth, but also alluded to the fact that people have a choice. Often the God marketed here is indistinguishable among various religions, whereas Jones argues that Oneism implies subjective relativity whereas twoism implies that there is One truth and two basic choices.
Edited by Phat, : clarification
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by caffeine, posted 09-08-2018 4:01 PM caffeine has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Faith, posted 09-08-2018 6:08 PM Phat has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 96 of 1677 (839473)
09-08-2018 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by caffeine
09-08-2018 4:03 PM


caffeine writes:
But what will you put on the toast?
I held back on that because I thought it was a smart choice. But to my mind it's marmite or just butter. The butter would have to be salted. But marmite would be the choice. God would know to wait if necessary.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by caffeine, posted 09-08-2018 4:03 PM caffeine has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Faith, posted 09-08-2018 5:59 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 97 of 1677 (839474)
09-08-2018 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by caffeine
09-08-2018 4:01 PM


Re: Wordification
The oneism and twoism kind of bug me too, I don't know why he did that, but he's been doing it for years, through many earlier books.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by caffeine, posted 09-08-2018 4:01 PM caffeine has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 98 of 1677 (839475)
09-08-2018 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by caffeine
09-08-2018 4:03 PM


I should put honey on the toast because Rosh Hashanah is big on sweet eats, honey in particular, which the Parisian Jews gave Macron when he visited their synagogue for the Rosh Hashanah event. Challah bread is also mentioned for that holiday but I'm not going to go that far. But probably just butter on the toast. Unsalted actually, with a pinch of salt because unsalted needs a little.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 93 by caffeine, posted 09-08-2018 4:03 PM caffeine has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 99 of 1677 (839476)
09-08-2018 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Tangle
09-08-2018 5:40 PM


Never had marmite as a spread. Must be a Brit thing.
ABE: Just looked it up. Yes I remember that stuff, there was a sort of health fad for it here, back in the seventies or so as I recall. Not as a spread though, something you mixed into soups and so on. Never caught on with me.
ABE: I don't actually remember the health idea, though that's a lot of what's on Google about it because of its high B vitamin content, but what I actually remember is the idea it would be a good flavor enhancer for soups and meat dishes, and in my opinion it wasn't.
I don't think I want to know whatever the joke is supposed to be about what I'm planning to eat though.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Tangle, posted 09-08-2018 5:40 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 100 of 1677 (839477)
09-08-2018 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Phat
09-08-2018 4:24 PM


Re: Wordification
Interesting. I never paid much attention to that distinction in his books, more interested just in the way he lays out the different concepts rather than why he divides them as he does. So in this book the various writers are tackling some of the major philosophical positions of our day, such as environmentalism which is where the reading left off last week.
If anyone cares, I can't think of Peter Jones without remembering that he was John Lennon's best friend up to about the age of thirteen or fourteen. Then Lennon went oneist into "Imagine" and Jones went Christian, or more seriously Christian perhaps since as I recall his family was Christian.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Phat, posted 09-08-2018 4:24 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Phat, posted 09-09-2018 3:39 AM Faith has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 101 of 1677 (839485)
09-09-2018 3:39 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Faith
09-08-2018 6:08 PM


Wordification and admittedly making it up as I go along
I dont think I fully understand it, but I need to revise my definition as i understand it. Oneism advocates the idea that God is impersonal and thus can even be described as an energy force, such as the Force in Star Wars. The emphasis is on the god within all of us...not only those chosen by a personal God, but impartially and fairly in every living being.
Twoism, in contrast, represents black/white thinking. Either you are for Him or against Him. Either you allow His character to commune with you and trust the consequences or you become more relativistic, non-judgemental, feeling as if you are gods yourselves. Granted many Christians---myself included---have felt the allure of the second way, Some would argue that they simply don't think about all of this hocus-pocus. They would argue that they simply live life, accept life and death, and enjoying the moment. They advocate relaxing from the seriousness of what they would term my religious obsession and fantasy.
And to be honest, I am not even as serious as you are, Faith. you won't even allow yourself to entertain the possibility that your belief is wrong. I think that while we are on earth, there is a tendency to fancy ourselves as oneist as satan is...whereas the truth is that we are twoists in that God lives in us but our flesh fights against this reality. Perhaps Tangle is right---I am a bit obsessive and crazy. One thing I believe is that Jesus was and is indeed a twoist in that God is Spirit and yet Jesus has a body...which in any normal person would be fighting the Spirit. Jesus brought flesh and Spirit together, which would be the goal of God coming back for His Bride.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Faith, posted 09-08-2018 6:08 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Faith, posted 09-09-2018 3:48 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 102 of 1677 (839486)
09-09-2018 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Phat
09-09-2018 3:39 AM


Re: Wordification and admittedly making it up as I go along
I don't grasp all of its implications but the primary distinction seems to be that oneism regards the Creation as basically all that is or ever was (which is a garbled version of a quote of Carl Sagan), so that human inclinations to worship are directed at the Creation itself; while twoism is the view that Creator and Creation are separate and worship is directed to the Creator alone. As you quote Jones pointing out, Romans 1:25 is the source of this distinction as he sees it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 103 of 1677 (839490)
09-09-2018 4:12 AM


Another couple of portents
I must admit I'm discouraged about the possibility of the Rapture now, downright depressed about it at times. There are now about seven hours to sunset Israel time which is the start of Rosh Hashanah, and I still intend to have my coffee (I'm out of bread so no toast) some time before that, still hoping.
But I need to report two more "portents." One from a couple days ago was that I happened to turn on the radio (I hardly ever pay attention to the time or even know when certain programs are on unless it's something I've been avidly following, which is sometimes the case but not on this occasion: I sat down in my recliner and turned on the radio and it was the Bible reading program and it took me a flustered moment or two to recognize that I had turned it on right AFTER the verse that commands the convocation of trumpet blowing for the Jewish Seventh Month or New Year:
Numbers 29:1 writes:
And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets unto you.
I recognized the verses following that one, the long lists of sacrifices to be performed over the ten days between Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, and I THINK I'd turned it on exactly at Numbers 29:2, but I can't be entirely sure of that because I was scrambling to recognize what was being read, but it was at least very shortly after verse 1. It was a very discouraging portent because it seems to be about MISSING the Rapture, or there not being a Rapture at all since the Rapture was left out and only the following days were there. This was a very depressing portent for me. EXACTLY missing the verse about the Rapture, exactly precisely missing it.
But then yesterday another portent of sorts: Windows 10's desktop picture of the day, which is usually some scenic nature shot, was an aerial shot of what looks like farmland somewhere, not very high overhead, just high enough to suggest flying low over the land.
So who knows. In six or seven hours I still plan to get some coffee and either go out on the balcony or sit by a window until Israel sunset time is past, and if nothing has happened within an hour or so of that I'll do the same again for my own sunset time and even midnight of Sept 10 to cover all bases.
I know this is all very weird anyway because this is my own private Rapture vigil and I have no idea if anybody else is doing something similar. Why would God give me my own portents? I don't know but He does talk to us individually and maybe it's just that I've been thinking a lot oabout it. I know there are others who have in mind that this Rosh Hashanah COULD be the day of the Rapture, but I'm not in touch with them.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Faith, posted 09-09-2018 4:43 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 104 of 1677 (839491)
09-09-2018 4:43 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Faith
09-09-2018 4:12 AM


I'm not alone
OH good, I'm certainly not the only one. Just googled the right combo of words and got a whole page about others looking to this Rosh Hashanah. So we'll either all be gone together or all disappointed together.
ABE: WOW, there's a LOT of buzz about it. Some think September 11 is the right date. But I saw SEPT 10 in my mind's eye so that's what I'm going with.
Part of the focus on this Rosh Hashanah is the fact that 2018 is the seventieth anniversary of the year Israel became a nation, and of course all seventies, and sevens in general, are important in scripture.
So I'll be aware of having lots of company on my vigil now, while I sip my coffee.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Faith, posted 09-09-2018 4:12 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Tangle, posted 09-09-2018 5:12 AM Faith has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 105 of 1677 (839492)
09-09-2018 5:12 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Faith
09-09-2018 4:43 AM


Re: I'm not alone
Don't forget your toothbrush.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Faith, posted 09-09-2018 4:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Faith, posted 09-09-2018 5:18 AM Tangle has replied

  
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