Christianity and the End Times

I acknowledge the evidence including the fact that the serpent in Genesis 2&3 told the truth and the God in Genesis 2&3 lied.YOU are the one who posted "The jury of reality is still out on whether the book is warning us not to forget the God Who created and sustains us in favor of our own fallible wisdom and attempt to live a life guided by our own evidence-based progress."YOU are relying solely on YOUR fallible wisdom and ignoring the evidence which is exactly what Loki and Coyote promote.If you are not guided by evidence then you must be guided by human wisdom, unless of course, you can provide evidence of any other source.

I don't think Tangle actually reads the Bible.The Bible has a funny effect on some people. The less they read it the more they fancy themselves to be experts on it. On the Internet some of the ones who think they understand what's there the most actually read it the least. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I'm sorry if I come across grumpy about talking about Antichrist.Without going into verses right now, I will give you a little about this guy. What I write you can count on me being able to at least reasonably substantiate with the Scriptures.Someone will come along who is brilliant, intelligent and impressive. He may come from Greece or be of Greek origin. For the first part of his career he may be a great peace maker. He will be so attractive, wise, even physically imposing, the kind of person everyone wants to be.Midway through his being in power he will be killed or assassinated. And then he will resuscitate and be involved in a miracle of coming back to life. Now when he comes back to life he will be extraordinarily different.He will have the same body but be in some exceedingly deep occultism way inhabited with the spirit of another man from the past - Nero. In other words he will have the body of a modern man, be killed, come back to life with the soul and spirit of someone from the ancient past - Caesar Nero. From attractive hero to terrible monster he will have gone. This will be extraordinary.Virtually this will be Nero coming back from the bottomless pit of the Abyss and inhabiting the physical body of a modern man who was killed.He will be joined by someone else from the ancient past - I believe this could be Judas Iscariot as his false prophet.In this way two persons from the past - Moses and Elijah (probably) as the two Witnesses will be matched by two other people from the past - Nero and Judas.This has all be reasoned out by some astute Bible scholars. If I am wrong then, whatever the case may be, it will be dreadful to be on the earth at that time.In fact the earth will at some time be no more fit for human habitation.
In prophecy we usually have only the tip of the iceberg. Scientist will not be able to explain all the things which are then happening to the earth. We HAVE to expected surprises of which we may have no knowledge of now.The best assurance is the walk in fellowship with the living and available Christ now by patience and practice and watching vigilance.Now, I've said a little about this person the Antichrist and his false prophet.
Two against two - God has a situation on the earth at that time which will virtually polarize the world to fall in one camp or the other, pretty much.Christians now, should they be alive, should want to view these matters from above and not here to be under this kind of terrible situation. But it is inevitable that some of the church will pass through the great tribulation.The GOOD side of the Antichrist may be present for a few years. And the nightmarish side of him after he is killed and returned to life, will be the time specifically of the great tribulation.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Tangle doesn't read the bible. But Tangle has read the bible. Tangle thinks that people who spend large parts of their lives reading the same book over and over have a kind of mental illness. It only had a funny effect on me when I found out that there were a very large number of grown-ups that thought the little moral stories in it were actually real life events. Eve made from Adams rib. People made whole from dust, talking snakes, giants, animals entering an ark 2 by 2 etc etc etc. That had a VERY funny effect on me.

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Tangle doesn't read the bible. But Tangle has read the bible. Tangle thinks that people who spend large parts of their lives reading the same book over and over have a kind of mental illness for living to read and pray over the Bible.

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Some of the engineers, physicians and scientists among the people I worship with would be amused to be informed by you that they were mentally ill.You also don't know about the RHEMA and the LOGOS of the word of God. God is living. God illuminates on His word by, like, breathing fresh speaking with it to our hearts.The is the rhema of the living Spirit's enlivening the words of the Bible to us.
So it never get old because the spiritual life within us is always fresh and never grows old.

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The Bible has a funny effect on some people. The less they read it the more they fancy themselves to be experts on it.
It only had a funny effect on me when I found out that there were a very large number of grown-ups that thought the little moral stories in it were actually real life events. Eve made from Adams rib. People made whole from dust, talking snakes, giants, animals entering an ark 2 by 2 etc etc etc. That had a VERY funny effect on me.

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I'm still waiting for this to hit me like a ton of bricks. It seems to impress you.God building a wife for Adam out of Adam is too profound. It is a window into the whole meaning of human existence. What comes back to God is that which He will take out of Christ. That which is to come out of Christ God builds into a counterpart to match Christ for eternity.You mock the Bible but it has within it the meaning of the universe and the eternal purpose of the Creator. The one became two. Then the two came together to become one.You cannot know the meaning of human creation unless you know Jesus Christ - God and man united as one.The loss is yours that you dismiss certain things in the Bible. I think a wiser person would not discard this book in the way you do. I'm glad keener intellects have kept on reading.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Somebody ask Tangle to put three consecutive sentences together explaining WHY he is here in the universe.I know why I exist, because of the blessing of the wonderful Holy Bible that reveals it.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I don't see what being a scientist has got to do with it. People are complicated, they can and do hold contradictory ideas in their minds.
But it is a fact that scientists are less likely to be infected by bad religious ideas than others. I certainly don't know that, what's more, neither do you. That's the stuff of delusional belief systems. It's also simply bloody wrong. We know that Adam and Eve never existed and we know how people evolved. You're beliefs are childish and wrong. You're whole belief system is built on an error. It's a window into the deluded mind.

I'm here jaywill, you can ask me directly. Do you imaginine yourself preaching to a congrgation here?And why we're about it, did Armstrong walk on the moon? If you refuse to answer for a third time, I will conclude that you don't believe that he did.

Not only do you acknowledge it, you deify it. I am relying on the Spirit which lives within me. Reality is not always obvious nor evident. Call me crazy. Sometimes I feel as if I am.The God that you market, however, likely doesn't care what I believe but only on what I do.

Bullshit Phat. Please present the evidence that I deify any evidence. Do you even know what deify means? And how can you know anything about the Spirit which lives within you (whatever that even means) except through your own human fallible wisdom? While reality may not always be obvious or evident (for example magicians tricks) there are many cases where reality is obvious and evident. It's obvious and evident that what is written in a story is what is written in that story. And how can anyone tell what someone actually believes other than by what they do?

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I'm here jaywill, you can ask me directly.

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Oh? I asked you other questions directly and was evaded.

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Do you imaginine yourself preaching to a congrgation here?

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What's wrong with preaching to a congregation ? Are you tied down in some pew? You can challenge, debate, or take the talk in a whole different direction.

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And why we're about it, did Armstrong walk on the moon?

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I was alive to watch the event on TV in 1969. I don't know how old you are. Since then, actually, long afterwards, I began to have doubts. There was something fishy in the matter.Now, I have come to think it was - One small step for man and one giant leap for American propaganda.I could be wrong. I consider myself open minded about counter arguments. And that is a lot more open minded then you are about the New Testament.The other thing I mentioned was the belief that the entire biosphere lucked out by macro evolution into all the vast diversity of life forms we see around us. While I recognize micro evolution, macro evolution I have to dismiss as a fairy tale for adults.But concerning all the videos of moon walks ? I cannot shake the feeling that we've been had by Cold War propaganda. And ANY counter argument I listen to and continue to weigh them.

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If you refuse to answer for a third time, I will conclude that you don't believe that he did.

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I didn't notice you asked in two previous times. That's what happens when you poison the well of discussion boards with insults. People STOP reading your stuff. And people stop addressing you directly.So this is the FIRST time I noticed you ASKED. You come to a BIBLE STUDY to denigrade the Bible. Why waste your time then? Go to one of the forums where you have something to contribute to further the study of whatever it is that is being studied.You come in here not to study anything but to totally insult some of us who come for "Bible Study." So that's what happens. Your posts get not read or not read carefully.And I'm not the only one here to preach. You come to preach your contempt for a book on earth like no other. And I know there are some candidates for comparison.Now you can put together two or three sentences to tell us what you have INSTEAD of the teaching of Jesus Christ and the prophecy of the climax of human history.Got something more interesting or better? Here's your chance to put it up for comparison to the End Times as the Bible explains.Oh, one last thing about the "preaching to a congregation" thing. Don't insult my intelligence by suggesting you don't enjoy your OWN skeptical "Amen Corner". You enjoy plenty of support from your skeptical and cynical Amen Corner.There's more of you guys than there are of us who believe something of the Bible. In fact some of you strut around here like you own the whole Forum. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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I certainly don't know that, what's more, neither do you. That's the stuff of delusional belief systems.

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So I ask you again. Who in human history do you think displayed more of a sober minded grasp of proper priorities on reasoning, ethics, morality, and human purpose than Jesus Christ ?Who do you find to be more sober minded?
This time don't hide behind The Hobbit characters.Have you studied what other great minds in the world have had to say about Jesus?H.G. Wells was no evangelical Christian. He was somewhat before his time. He wrote "An Outline of History," "The Shape of Things to Come," "The Time Machine." "War of the Worlds". etc.H.G. Wells said something like when Jesus opened His mouth His libs contained the whole world.I agree. Jesus' simple words touch the heart of the human situation to the core in crystal clear clarity. Propose a more sound mind in history than that of Jesus of Nazareth.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

If you actually read the Bible accounts of Jesus it would be hard to claim he showed a sober minded grasp of proper priorities on reasoning, ethics, morality, and human purpose. He does exhibit normal human characteristics like humor, anger, petulance, regret and selfishness. And few if any of his assertions on morality or ethics were new or not simply assertions made hundreds of years earlier by the Buddha, Confucius, Mencius and Lao Tzu.

Allow me to express my assertion more precisely. I certainly know that you dont literally worship evidence...that would be silly, would it not? Lets expand on what I may mean...I'm making an assertion that I need to define. Using Google dictionary and breaking down synonyms, I will attempt to clarify. Perhaps you revere evidence. You hold it in reverence.
1.Revere-feel deep respect or admiration for (something).
You feel deep respect or admiration. But for what? Logic, reason, and reality that youhave cultivated? That you earned?
Perhaps you venerate evidence.
1.regard with great respect; revere.
Essentially, I am asserting that you hold logic, reason, and reality (your own that YOU have earned and cultivated) in high regard. If by this you mean how can we know anything about ourselves except through our own perceptions, I am pointing out that you venerate ...you feel deep respect and admiration--for human wisdom within yourself and others. It is evident that you respect your own arguments or you wouldnt cling to them and make them repeatedly. I may well ask you how can you not know anything about the Spirit which lives within you?You will likely respond---as you always do---with a canned response:
[i]How would I know that it was "spirit" and not a bad burrito or satan or _______(insert character here) and I would say that "it" was in you. You would ask how that was even possible. So tell me this---if you had to revere one character over another, would you revere the character telling the truth or would you revere the character lying?Then you can explain to us why you revere the snake.Or show us the evidence why you do not revere the snake...because you certainly dont revere God.
"Au Contraire!!" jar shouts. "Look at what I do! Christianity is all about what we do rather than what we believe!"All I see you doing is cussing, reasserting your own argument and ego, which you revere...and denigrating the opinions of your opponents while attempting to insult their intelligence or lack thereof. Thus, you reassert your argument that Jesus was simply human...nothing more or less.So getting back to my question:
if you had to revere one character over another, would you revere the character telling the truth or would you revere the character lying?Then you can explain to us why you revere the snake.Or show us the evidence why you do not revere the snake...because you certainly don't revere God. And it's on you to show us the evidence that you do.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

That is utterly stupid Phat. Logic, reason & reality are not things someone owns or cultivates. They are universal tools and facts. What you posit is as silly as saying I revere a hammer. And once again, I would ask what the hell does the Spirit that lives within me even mean? What makes you think I revere human wisdom within yourself and others over (what other kind of wisdom could there be than human wisdom; trying to find the word, OH, yes, fantasy) unsupported belief? Should I prefer unsupported belief over supported and evidenced beliefs? Neither Phat. They are characters, plot devices in the story. They have no reality beyond being plot devices in the story. No Phat, I do not make that argument, I point out what the authors of the Bible stories wrote. And there you go once again simply misrepresenting what I have posted.Stop and try to think Phat. See if you can figure out how you are misrepresenting what I post. If you can figure that out then ask yourself WHY you constantly misrepresent what others post? (HINT, I explain just above how you are misrepresenting my positions, see if you can find it.)