Christianity and the End Times

To the peanut gallery:I would argue that all of this is on topic in that until it can be established that there is or is not an end time approaching theologically, humanity must deal with the basic issues regarding religion, belief, truth, and consensus.

Some critics would argue that your whole rabbit trail of declaring that the snake tells the truth and that God lies is perverting the Bible. Yet we respectfully give you the platform even though you insult our intelligence. It establishes who said it...whether it was actually God talking through human authors or whether it is simply a product of human imagination. If it is the former, we may well pay attention to end times possibilities. If it is the latter, we still need to be responsible, yet not so religious.

You squirmed out of that one! good answer, and a support for your secular belief...though I still dont trust secular government nor human motives for keeping the world safe from destruction. I tend to agree with Percys argument
here regarding the behavioral inclinations of a global populace threatened with poverty.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

OK you have a point. The content and motive both matter.

At last, you are arguing that God is hypothetical and is brighter than many believers give Him credit for...but wait...if I recall correctly, you don't believe He exists. What makes YOU so sophisticated?

The mistake that you are making is believing that since folk are no longer simple and understand science that they can enlighten the rest of the species, liberating them from "Bronze Age Myths" and finally moving our species forward to a better time (which you have evidence is happening)....but what you do not see is that this is precisely what is predicted. The jury of reality is still out on whether the book is warning us not to forget the God Who created and sustains us in favor of our own fallible wisdom and attempt to live a life guided by our own evidence-based progress.

And Daniels writers were sophisticated enough to see that knowledge would increase, though I doubt they had visions of an internet, science, and evidence-based thinking apart from the need for a God.

Misdirecting the audience again? How could I worship gods that exist only in literary imagination? I'm talking about the one we spell with three capital letters. The One Who created all seen and unseen. Certainly NOT the one who lied, while the allegorical snake told the truth! Which one do you worship?

jaywill, what does it mean when it says the Beast was and is not and yet is?
We know that Jesus was, is,and will come. I have my own theories as to what it means, but I thought I would get your interpretation....and by all means, focus on Christ...He is all we really have! jar can laugh about Loki, Coyote and other literary plot devices all he wants, but his logic wont save him from the world of the future nor will it get him through any problems that come up.

Not only do you acknowledge it, you deify it. I am relying on the Spirit which lives within me. Reality is not always obvious nor evident. Call me crazy. Sometimes I feel as if I am.The God that you market, however, likely doesn't care what I believe but only on what I do.

Allow me to express my assertion more precisely. I certainly know that you dont literally worship evidence...that would be silly, would it not? Lets expand on what I may mean...I'm making an assertion that I need to define. Using Google dictionary and breaking down synonyms, I will attempt to clarify. Perhaps you revere evidence. You hold it in reverence.
1.Revere-feel deep respect or admiration for (something).
You feel deep respect or admiration. But for what? Logic, reason, and reality that youhave cultivated? That you earned?
Perhaps you venerate evidence.
1.regard with great respect; revere.
Essentially, I am asserting that you hold logic, reason, and reality (your own that YOU have earned and cultivated) in high regard. If by this you mean how can we know anything about ourselves except through our own perceptions, I am pointing out that you venerate ...you feel deep respect and admiration--for human wisdom within yourself and others. It is evident that you respect your own arguments or you wouldnt cling to them and make them repeatedly. I may well ask you how can you not know anything about the Spirit which lives within you?You will likely respond---as you always do---with a canned response:
[i]How would I know that it was "spirit" and not a bad burrito or satan or _______(insert character here) and I would say that "it" was in you. You would ask how that was even possible. So tell me this---if you had to revere one character over another, would you revere the character telling the truth or would you revere the character lying?Then you can explain to us why you revere the snake.Or show us the evidence why you do not revere the snake...because you certainly dont revere God.
"Au Contraire!!" jar shouts. "Look at what I do! Christianity is all about what we do rather than what we believe!"All I see you doing is cussing, reasserting your own argument and ego, which you revere...and denigrating the opinions of your opponents while attempting to insult their intelligence or lack thereof. Thus, you reassert your argument that Jesus was simply human...nothing more or less.So getting back to my question:
if you had to revere one character over another, would you revere the character telling the truth or would you revere the character lying?Then you can explain to us why you revere the snake.Or show us the evidence why you do not revere the snake...because you certainly don't revere God. And it's on you to show us the evidence that you do.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

sometimes its fun arguing with you! My best guess is this sentence:

quote:

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What makes you think I revere human wisdom within yourself and others over (what other kind of wisdom could there be than human wisdom; trying to find the word, OH, yes, fantasy) unsupported belief? Should I prefer unsupported belief over supported and evidenced beliefs?

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Was that it? Am I making up your positions to add to my fantasy? So where do you get your idea of who God actually is? The Nicene Creed? Your beloved late Mama? Joe Wood?Did the idea not originate within you?

The whole moon landing argument makes our side look bad, to be honest. As for the Rapture, I wont rule it out entirely but i'm not worried about setting any dates. I just try and do the best I can where I'm at.Of course I'm thought to be crazy also...which I will concur with.

I will consider your argument, based on your willingness to present the case as you understand it. Granted the whole idea seems preposterous to me, laden with conspiracy theorist type stuff. BUT...I also am skeptical of the classified informational behavior of the United States government and see a parallelism with the shady details regarding Roswell, New Mexico, and the whole UFO story. To be honest, I believe that the actual moon landings happened. I also do not believe that there has ever been contact with extraterrestrial beings. But I am skeptical of high level classified information being covered up by the government. I don't think we ever are being told everything. 9-11 still brings some questions to my mind, as does the whole Kennedy assassination controversy. Not that they were necessarily faked so much as they were embellished.But despite my being a believer in an actual living and eternal Jesus Christ, I often am incredulous over the distinct possibility that humanity is and always has been involved in an internal and societal spiritual war of sorts. It is not always clear who the good guys are if, in fact, there can be said to be such a group or even such a country. As believers, can we allow the same criteria regarding the apologetics and the truth behind the Bible? While I most definitely believe that GOD exists, is real and has been subjectively shown to be personal towards me, I won't deny the objective critics who question me on such matters. What about you, jaywill? Where do you stand in regards to facts vs your beliefs?

The question is whether or not God and Jesus are a creation of man or whether there has actually been a communication between the Creator of all seen and unseen and humanity at some point.I believe that there has, though cannot prove it. You point out the reasons why it was contrived as a story in order to market a religion. But what about the same behavior in our modern government? How many stories have they tried to market? Can you believe that reality suggests that we all are humans and at the end of the day on the same page? OR...is there a group at the top globally who desires to control the masses for "their own good" and who classifies information in order to gain the money and the power to further their own interests?