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Author | Topic: The Atheist Experience | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I suspect that most atheists are not as interested in atheism as you are. Has anyone watched this show?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Is a hammer superior to an apple? Are they interchangeable? Is Secular Humanism superior to Christianity?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I'm at the Public Library.
Watch a video once in a while.... Phat writes:
So you missed the point completely. One eats an apple or bakes a pie with it or splits it with an arrow. maybe they should have thrown it at the snake to shoo that critter away!Hammers are good for hard objects. Maybe Occam should have used a hammer rather than a razor. Is Secular Humanism superior to Christianity? How can you even compare them?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I'm not asking which is superior. I'm asking how you can even make a comparison. Like an apple and a hammer, are they used for the same purpose? If you don't have one, can you substitute the other? Tentatively I think that Christianity is superior in that we gain a relationship.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
caffeine writes:
I suppose you could think of it as conscience without the supernatural mumbo-jumbo added. Unfortunately, religion also subtracts some of the conscience. Yes, isn't that exactly Secular Humanism is? It's a Christianity substitute for ex-Christians who miss Christianity.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Conscience is a characteristic that evolved because it was beneficial. I don't need to "believe" in it for it to be a good thing. I can see the results. one could argue, however, that your sense of duty towards conscience is itself a beliefAnd our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Tangle writes:
I don't know about that.... Belief is positive - like pregnancy - you've either got it or you ain't.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Without concrete evidence, how do you know you're being "mindful"? For me, mindfulness, personal growth, and increased patience and wisdom are all the "evidence" I need.... Without concrete evidence, how do you know you're growing personally? Without concrete evidence, how do you know your patience and wisdom are increasing? Without concrete evidence, how do you know it isn't all self-delusion and wishful thinking?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
The question is how do YOU know?
what would you say *is* concrete evidence for those perceptions? Phat writes:
What does that mean? How do you distinguish "your own experience" from wishful thinking?
I trust what I have learned as well as verify it through my own experience. Phat writes:
What if there was a scientific paper that showed you were not being mindful? Would you accept it? I dont need a scientific paper to verify that I'm being mindful.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You shouldn't.
I trust my intuition. Phat writes:
Nobody should trust their own intuition. We ALL need confirmation. We often see things and hear things and intuit things that are not real. That's why one of the most common phrases is, "Did you see that?" You don't trust yours and need science to give you a reason to move forward. I asked you five questions and you answered one. Where does your intuition stand on the other four?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Comfort is not a cure for cognitive dissonance.
It means I trust what is comfortable. I trust what feels right. I don't like cognitive dissonance. Phat writes:
Again, that seems more like a comfortable idea than a rational one.
it seems rational to believe in a friendly ghost rather than a hostile one. Phat writes:
How is that a risk?
You would take it a step further and simply believe in verifiable reality rather than take the risk that any and all ghosts were illusions. Phat writes:
How can you trust anything BUT reality?
And again, how can I always trust reality? Phat writes:
You can have all the mystery and surprise you want as long as it doesn't interfere with reality. Part of me holds out for mystery and surprise.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It certainly can. For many people it seems like an escape from reality. Look at the little old lady who believed that God would save her from the flood - so fervently that she ignored the reality of the salvation that was available. For others, there seems to be a downright avoidance of reality. Look at Faith, who viciously denies reality in favour of her spoon-fed interpretation of the Bible.
Do you think that belief in God interferes with reality?Must it or merely can it? Phat writes:
There's no such thing as subjectively real.
I think that for me, when I embraced belief it became subjectively real. Phat writes:
1. All belief is unevidenced. If there was evidence, it wouldn't be belief. Does unevidenced belief equate to wishful thinking?2. Belief can be based on wishful thinking, or on ignorance of the evidence that does exist, or it can just be a temporary filler for areas where there isn't enough evidence. Phat writes:
1. There's no such thing as subjective evidence. Is subjective evidence allowable as evidence in the court of public opinion?2. Evidence has nothing to do with the court of public opinion. Evidence, by definition, must be evident. A bullet hole in a body is evident to everybody. The interpretation of the evidence may be subject to some differences of opinion.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Stop it. I was as "born again" as you ever were.
Which explains why you never became born again... Phat writes:
What? It's objective evidence that motivates change. If all we had to do was appease the gods, we'd still be sitting in caves eating raw mammoth. We used objective evidence, not faith, to make life better.
...your insistence on objective evidence blinded you to allowing change. Phat writes:
On the contrary, I'm willing to take control - and responsibility - instead of relying on an alien overlord.
Perhaps you never wanted to let go of your control... Phat writes:
So how come the "inner peace" isn't reflected in outer peace? ...but understand that when I did let go of my rational mind, I gained inner peace.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Why would you believe that? If you believe the Bible is God's inspired word to us, you don't treat it as man-made by subjecting it to the kind of thinking you'd subject any man-made doctrine to.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Cults use deprivation like that - to muddle the thought processes.
The less "fleshly" activity the better, that's all, including digestion. But you can fast from all kinds of things and get some of the same benefits, from sleep, from spending money.
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