Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 89 (8876 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 12-10-2018 3:55 AM
203 online now:
PaulK, Pressie, Tangle (3 members, 200 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Bill Holbert
Post Volume:
Total: 843,737 Year: 18,560/29,783 Month: 505/2,043 Week: 57/386 Day: 7/50 Hour: 4/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev123456
7
Author Topic:   The Atheist Experience
Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 91 of 100 (839917)
09-18-2018 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Tangle
09-18-2018 3:43 PM


Re: Holding On To Rationality At All Costs
No money, just a pat on the back. Find the test first.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Tangle, posted 09-18-2018 3:43 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Tangle, posted 09-18-2018 4:37 PM Faith has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6343
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 92 of 100 (839920)
09-18-2018 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Faith
09-18-2018 3:58 PM


Re: Holding On To Rationality At All Costs
Faith writes:

No money, just a pat on the back. Find the test first.

You've already failed the test. It was how you deal with bias when considering evidence. Especially evidence that you have a personal stake in. Not only did you fail, you refused to learn about it and how to deal it. You haven't even read the research on what it is.

You're avoiding learning how to think critically and rationally and you've demonstrated that you can't.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Faith, posted 09-18-2018 3:58 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Faith, posted 09-18-2018 4:48 PM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 94 by Faith, posted 09-18-2018 10:15 PM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 96 by Phat, posted 09-19-2018 10:42 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 93 of 100 (839921)
09-18-2018 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Tangle
09-18-2018 4:37 PM


Re: Holding On To Rationality At All Costs
Find a test. I found a few that aren't very apropos but I'm continuing to look.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Tangle, posted 09-18-2018 4:37 PM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Phat, posted 09-19-2018 1:33 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 94 of 100 (839923)
09-18-2018 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Tangle
09-18-2018 4:37 PM


Re: Holding On To Rationality At All Costs
Look, I know that confirmation bias involves ignoring the information that DOESN'T fit the perceived pattern. The thing is the pattern isn't resting on an exclusive collection of information but a preponderance of incidents with the same theme that occurred exactly on that theme, exactly, precisely, not two sentences away. I was getting lots of those. The theme is NOT that common and I haven't had one occur since. Which of course in itself suggests the whole thing was an illusion, but it was quite a collection of related images, seeming beyond chance.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : j

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Tangle, posted 09-18-2018 4:37 PM Tangle has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 11563
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 95 of 100 (839926)
09-19-2018 1:33 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Faith
09-18-2018 4:48 PM


Re: Holding On To Rationality At All Costs
Faith writes:

Find a test. I found a few that aren't very apropos but I'm continuing to look.

Why not take Bob Altemeyer's test?
quote:
This survey is part of an investigation of general public opinion concerning a variety of social issues. You will probably find that you agree with some of the statements, and disagree with others, to varying extents. Please indicate your reaction to each statement on the line to the left of each item according to the following scale:

Write down a -4 if you very strongly disagree with the statement.
Write down a -3 if you strongly disagree with the statement.
Write down a -2 if you moderately disagree with the statement.
Write down a -1 if you slightly disagree with the statement.
Write down a +1 if you slightly agree with the statement.
Write down a +2 if you moderately agree with the statement.
Write down a +3 if you strongly agree with the statement.
Write down a +4 if you very strongly agree with the statement.
If you feel exactly and precisely neutral about an item, write down a 0.

("Dr. Bob" to reader: We’ll probably stay friends longer if you read this paragraph.) Important: You may find that you sometimes have different reactions to different parts of a statement. For example, you might very strongly disagree ("-4") with one idea in a statement, but slightly agree ("+1") with another idea in the same item. When this happens, please combine your reactions, and write down how you feel on balance (a "-3" in this case).

The established authorities generally turn out to be right about things, while the radicals and protestors are usually just "loudmouths” showing off their ignorance.
Women should have to promise to obey their husbands when they get married.
Our country desperately needs a mighty leader who will do what has to be done to destroy the radical new ways and sinfulness that are ruining us.
Gays and lesbians are just as healthy and moral as anybody else.
It is always better to trust the judgment of the proper authorities in government and religion than to listen to the noisy rabble-rousers in our society who are trying to create doubt in people’s minds
Atheists and others who have rebelled against the established religions are no doubt every bit as good and virtuous as those who attend church regularly.
The only way our country can get through the crisis ahead is to get back to our traditional values, put some tough leaders in power, and silence the troublemakers spreading bad ideas.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with nudist camps.
Our country needs free thinkers who have the courage to defy traditional ways, even if this upsets many people.
Our country will be destroyed someday if we do not smash the perversions eating away at our moral fiber and traditional beliefs.
Everyone should have their own lifestyle, religious beliefs, and sexual preferences, even if it makes them different from everyone else.
The "old-fashioned ways” and the "old-fashioned values” still show the best way to live.
You have to admire those who challenged the law and the majority’s view by protesting for women’s abortion rights, for animal rights, or to abolish school prayer.
What our country really needs is a strong, determined leader who will crush evil, and take us back to our true path.
Some of the best people in our country are those who are challenging our government, criticizing religion, and ignoring the "normal way things are supposed to be done.”
God’s laws about abortion, pornography and marriage must be strictly followed before it is too late, and those who break them must be strongly punished.
There are many radical, immoral people in our country today, who are trying to ruin it for their own godless purposes, whom the authorities should put out of action.
A "woman’s place” should be wherever she wants to be. The days when women are submissive to their husbands and social conventions belong strictly in the past.
Our country will be great if we honor the ways of our forefathers, do what the authorities tell us to do, and get rid of the "rotten apples” who are ruining everything.
There is no "ONE right way” to live life; everybody has to create their own way.
Homosexuals and feminists should be praised for being brave enough to defy "traditional family values.
This country would work a lot better if certain groups of troublemakers would just shut up and accept their group’s traditional place in society.
To score the test, go to page 13 of Altemeyer's book, the link is at the top of this message. I scored 44.(in 2009)

Are you an authoritarian? Take the test and find out!



Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Faith, posted 09-18-2018 4:48 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Faith, posted 09-19-2018 1:32 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 100 by caffeine, posted 09-19-2018 2:28 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11563
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 96 of 100 (839932)
09-19-2018 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Tangle
09-18-2018 4:37 PM


Re: Holding On To Rationality At All Costs
Tangle, addressing Faith writes:

You've already failed the test. It was how you deal with bias when considering evidence. Especially evidence that you have a personal stake in. Not only did you fail, but you also refused to learn about it and how to deal with it. You haven't even read the research on what it is.

You're avoiding learning how to think critically and rationally and you've demonstrated that you can't.

You do have a point in regards to subjective evidenced beliefs and how we do have a personal stake in them. It may well be that no believer can totally throw it all away in order to think critically. I try, but I won't simply let go of my strongly held beliefs in order to arrive at some possible truth which I don't trust nor feel comfortable with.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Tangle, posted 09-18-2018 4:37 PM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Faith, posted 09-19-2018 1:09 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 97 of 100 (839939)
09-19-2018 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Phat
09-19-2018 10:42 AM


Re: Holding On To Rationality At All Costs
You do have a point in regards to subjective evidenced beliefs and how we do have a personal stake in them. It may well be that no believer can totally throw it all away in order to think critically. I try, but I won't simply let go of my strongly held beliefs in order to arrive at some possible truth which I don't trust nor feel comfortable with.

If you believe the Bible is God's inspired word to us, you don't treat it as man-made by subjecting it to the kind of thinking you'd subject any man-made doctrine to. It is given to us to learn from, period. Everything else you can dissect and criticize, but not God's word.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Phat, posted 09-19-2018 10:42 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by ringo, posted 09-19-2018 1:31 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 98 of 100 (839944)
09-19-2018 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Faith
09-19-2018 1:09 PM


Re: Holding On To Rationality At All Costs
Faith writes:

If you believe the Bible is God's inspired word to us, you don't treat it as man-made by subjecting it to the kind of thinking you'd subject any man-made doctrine to.


Why would you believe that?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Faith, posted 09-19-2018 1:09 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 99 of 100 (839945)
09-19-2018 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Phat
09-19-2018 1:33 AM


Re: Holding On To Rationality At All Costs
I didn't want to take that ridiculous test when you posted it the first time and I still don't. It seems to be a bunch of opinions specifically collected from people chosen to have IQs below 80. Here's statement #1:

The established authorities generally turn out to be right about things, while the radicals and protestors are usually just "loudmouths” showing off their ignorance.

Both parts of that statement give me a sort of nausea. WHAT "established authorities?" It depends on what office they're in, and their political views among other things, and some of them with views I might otherwise agree with are complete idiots. Some protestors are protesting the right things for the right reasons, some are protesting for the wrong reasons, some are getting paid to disrupt town hall meetings and the Kavanaugh hearings. What does "usually" mean?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Phat, posted 09-19-2018 1:33 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1551
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 100 of 100 (839947)
09-19-2018 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Phat
09-19-2018 1:33 AM


Re: Holding On To Rationality At All Costs
Why not take Bob Altemeyer's test?

Aside from the fact that the test looks really badly designed, it's also trying to test something different that what Tangle and Faith were arguing about. Not sure what this would resolve.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Phat, posted 09-19-2018 1:33 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Prev123456
7
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2018