Christianity and the End Times

When you have a set of ambiguous statements, you can't just pick one and say it's unambiguous. That's cherry-picking.

Read it. It's unambiguous. As every sane exegete for centuries has affirmed.

ONE verse is unambiguous. The verses that disagree with it are equally unambiguous. Unambiguous yes + unambiguous no = ambiguous. That would be the No Sane Exegete fallacy.

But death did not enter the world because of Adam. That's just another perversion of what the Bible story in Genesis 2&3 actually says.Death existed in the world or creating the Tree of Life what just another dishonest and stupid action of the God character in the story.

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Please take your pulpit and preach your magical nonsense elsewhere.

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Nope.I have plenty of good things to teach and preach right here on the Evolution Verses Creation Forum.But first, let us see you put three consecutive sentences together which explain why you exist here in this universe.That is without one of your skeptic buddies coming in to save your face for you with some "got your back"
comment.Other then bitch about the Bible I bet you remain totally CLUELESS. Watch.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

And maybe not.There is nothing about Jesus Christ's life, teaching, words, and deeds which suggest He wanted anything for Himself by which CONING the world was a way to obtain it.You go ahead and put your trust in whoever else you think you should trust your eternal destiny to. And time will tell who was cheated and who was given the real straight truth.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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Interesting. Is that Witness Lee? Or Watchman Nee?
I think of salvation as regeneration of the spirit we lost at the Fall, never thought in terms of a literal sowing of the divine nature into us.

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Would you like me to go through every line of that post and substantiate every concept with the pure word of God - the Bible ?It will give me something positive to do while I wait for Tangle to us all about what he has which is better than the salvation of the Son of God.

Faith

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I think of salvation as regeneration of the spirit we lost at the Fall, never thought in terms of a literal sowing of the divine nature into us.

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Let's consider. Christ told a parable about Him sowing into various kinds of soil and fruits being produced or not from the growth of what He sowed.Am I right? Go on to read the rest of the parable and its interpretation given by Jesus Himself.In other teachings His life is also a SEED.
For example - the believers have been regenerated by incorruptible SEED - the living and abiding word of God. First Peter 1:23 Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Faith,

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I ... never thought in terms of a literal sowing of the divine nature into us.

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The apostles did the work of planting a seed which was a living Person - Christ into people. That is Christ in a form in which He could be "planted" into the innermost spiritual beings of human beings.And why did they do this planting and watering? They did so to produce the living temple of God - God's building.Right here - The apostle Paul planted the SEED of Jesus Christ in the Corinthiams.
The apostle Apollos came afterwards and WATERED the divine seed sown into them.God Himself causes the GROWTH of the divine seed. The SEED is God in Christ living in the believers.
The GROWTH is CAUSED by God.
God causes to grow and the growing is the actual growing of God in the believers.The Corinthian Christians are GOD"S FARM or GOd's culitivated land for growing Christ in humanity. And the growing of the crop of Christ sown in man is also the building of the temple, the house of God.Right here: God's eternal purpose is to BUILD Himself into man.
God's eternal plan is to build man into Himself as a mutual living TEMPLE an "organic" house of God.The HOUSE is built by the GROWING of the Triune God in man into whom the apostles have SOWN the seed of Jesus Christ. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Faith,

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I think of salvation as regeneration of the spirit we lost at the Fall, never thought in terms of a literal sowing of the divine nature into us.

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You know that the Christians are said to be PARTAKERS of the divine nature.
They were not BORN with this nature. It had to be imparted INTO them sometime after their natural birth.Here we are PARTAKERS of the divine nature: The divine nature SOWN or imparted INTO man through her receiving Jesus is a BIRTH - a SECOND BIRTH of God.Here we receive Jesus and are BORN again of God - Receiving Jesus Christ is therefore receiving a BIRTH from God which imparts into man the divine nature making man in the family of God as Father.The unbelieving rejecting to receive Jesus are destined to be lost to eternal damnation.The believing are partakers of the divine nature by which it is inevitable that they will totally escape the corruption that is in the world since the collapse of the fall of man. Were we not told that the SEED is the life of God which is sinless and overcomes the world ? Of course this verse means that the fully developed and fully matured SEED of God's life in a man alone will cause him to overcome all the sin in the world.This is not a statement of sinless perfection immediately upon being a Christian. It is a teaching of assuring the Christian that the total victory over sinning is in the SEED. The SEED must be planted. The SEED must be watered. The SEED must grow and mature. And it WILL eventually in every saved person.It is the destiny of the man or woman who receives Christ and has been begotten of God - begotten of the incorruptible seed. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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I think of salvation as regeneration of the spirit we lost at the Fall, never thought in terms of a literal sowing of the divine nature into us.

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I don't think Adam and Eve possessed the divine life of the Father by the mere advent of their CREATION.I do see your point. And I see how one could see it this way.I. however, don't think the newly created man and his wife were partakers of God's life within. Now what they DID have was sinlessness, neutrality, and innocence.It is foreign to many people's thought that a man could be sinless, innocent, and neutral between God and His enemy Satan, yet not be a full participant in the eternal purpose of God.Many think that God just wants people to live forever. But already had plenty of angels who had an everlasting life. Adam could be created with an inherent everlasting life yet not be fully according to the plan of God to dispense Himself INTO Man for a mingling of God and man.This mingling of God and man is portrayed in the tree of life. The tree of life does not mean the BIOLOGICAL life of all living things.
The This is not an easy matter to understand and discuss in one short post. But I think the Christian has to concede that things DIED before Adam sinned.The approach I presently support is that just as men BEFORE the birth of Jesus Christ are retroactively saved because of His redemption, in a similar manner death was retroactively operating in the creatures of the earth because of his disobedience, yet so retroactively.This calls for an understanding of God's providential transcendence over time as we know it. He is WAY, WAY, ahead of us. And typical chronological cause and effect is not ALWAYS the obvious appearance of the state of things in the universe.Unlike YEC's I can accept DEATH of plants and animals in the earth chronologically before the disobedience of Adam when death passed to ALL MEN.
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I think of the spirit we lost at the Fall as our own human faculty that had the ability to communicate with God, not the life of God in us. But it makes sense that this is God's plan for His redeemed humanity, since we now have the indwelling Holy Spirit. Whatever we are will be more than Adam and Eve originally had.The quote says sin ENTERED INTO THE WORLD through Adam, and through sin death. There is nothing there to justify the idea that death preceded Adam's sin.The reason people were saved before Christ's death is that they had true faith and even looked forward to the prophesied Messiah, so that when Jesus came they were saved by His death. There is nothing in Adam's sin even remotely comparable to this retroactive salvation. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This is a debate site, not a teaching and preaching site - if you want to do that, get yourself off to your church. If you continue to do it here, you'll get yourself banned.If you want to discuss something, you start a new thread on it and see if anyone is interested. That includes why we exist in the universe. Now get down off your pulpit and start debating.

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This is a debate site, not a teaching and preaching site - if you want to do that, get yourself off to your church. If you continue to do it here, you'll get yourself banned.

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If you want to discuss something, you start a new thread on it and see if anyone is interested. That includes why we exist in the universe. Now get down off your pulpit and start debating.

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This is a room called Bible Study under which title it says

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What does the Bible really mean?

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So I will write about what the Bible really means."Preaching" is mostly the term you use for having to listen to something you don't want to hear. So why don't YOU go start another thread on "The Bible means nothing !" and bitch to your heart's content?Besides I gave you opportunity to show us you could say something of a better more meaningful world view to the Bible concerning the meaning of man in the universe.So far you came up with nothing.
Not much of a debate, was it ?
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Yes, I see that it is very scriptural, I just hadn't quite put it all together before. The terms "sowing" and "seed" in this context are unfamiliar but I always love finding new meanings and depths in scripture.I don't know why but I'd always thought of the new birth as a recovery of the functions of the spirit we lost at the Fall, but what you are saying makes more sense. Scripture says, after all, that we are "new creatures." Every word of scripture bears deep thought and meditation doesn't it?Ever since I got convinced that there is going to be a pretribulation Rapture, not of any particular timing but just that it is going to happen, I've been a lot more dedicated in my prayer time. And your views of all this increase my determination even more. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.