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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 179 of 1184 (830549)
04-02-2018 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Percy
03-30-2018 5:59 PM


Re: Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Seriously?
I simply thought it odd that New York would have a lower gun death rate than a sparsely populated state like Wyoming, that's all. No need for fancy speculation.
You seem to have made your point and that's fine with me, only I haven't yet thought it all through so that could be a false impression. I'm happy if you're right, I just need to think it through and I don't know when I'll get to it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Percy, posted 03-30-2018 5:59 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Percy, posted 04-03-2018 1:21 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 184 of 1184 (830589)
04-03-2018 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Percy
04-03-2018 1:21 PM


Re: Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Seriously?
This is just too tediously ridiculous. Yes I may not get to check it out, but I can't totally agree with you unless I do. You should just accept that I grant it looks like you answered me sufficiently. I can't say more than that at the moment. As for the rest you are just piling weird misinterpretations one on top of another. It's too much to try to answer you right now. Who knows, I do sometimes get a second wind so I may come back to it. Your fancy speculations were about my motivations as usual, I don't remember what though, not worth checking.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Percy, posted 04-03-2018 1:21 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Percy, posted 04-03-2018 2:43 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 186 of 1184 (830600)
04-03-2018 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Percy
04-03-2018 2:43 PM


Re: Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Seriously?
Your tables generally show that there are more gun deaths in densely populated areas. What does that have to do with my argument that more people carrying guns would make people safer in the circumstances of these mass shootings?
Based on your tables I have no reason to doubt your conclusion that New York has fewer gun deaths than a sparsely populated state like Wyoming, and that was the comparison in my mind, but unless I analyze it all very carefully I'm not yet convinced my initial concern was wrong. As I recall I didn't even argue that I was sure it was right, it just struck me as odd and that, really and truly, is all.
If I do go on to try to argue the same thing again without more reason to do so, then call me on it. I'm not biding my time at all, I just don't know at this point and don't want to commit to a position yet. When it comes to YEC arguments I do keep coming back to the same argument over and over, because I know it's basically true no matter what, but I don't have any reason to do that with this particular argument.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Percy, posted 04-03-2018 2:43 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Percy, posted 04-04-2018 2:50 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 189 of 1184 (830739)
04-05-2018 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Percy
04-04-2018 2:50 PM


Re: Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Seriously?
Perhaps you are right, I don't know and I don't have the energy to try to find out. Please just ignore whatever I've said, I have to stop posting, I'm tired, I feel rotten, I can't deal with any of this right now although I keep trying. I have to stop. Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Percy, posted 04-04-2018 2:50 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Percy, posted 04-07-2018 4:58 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 354 of 1184 (840579)
10-02-2018 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by Hyroglyphx
10-02-2018 12:52 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Supporting the right to carry arms is not the same thing as supporting "violence." If anything it could be argued that it is the reverse, that is, supporting the means to prevent violence. No matter what the statistics say about probabilities, the actual motivation by individuals for the second amendment is as much to prevent violence as provide means of self defense.
However, Jesus said two swords for the whole group was enough, not a huge support for carrying arms. But it is SOME support.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-02-2018 12:52 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 357 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 3:25 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 355 of 1184 (840580)
10-02-2018 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by ringo
10-02-2018 12:54 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Just as you say Jesus bringing a sword not peace is not about self-defense, neither is turning the other cheek about self-defense. Turning the other cheek is about being insulted -- that's what a slap on the cheek meant. It is not a threat to your life. Therefore you can't say that turning the other cheek is an argument against self-defense.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 12:54 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 356 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 3:03 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 358 of 1184 (840583)
10-02-2018 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 356 by ringo
10-02-2018 3:03 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hey you're right. I didn't know that was the context, I always thought it was about being insulted. So it is about personal injury -- although the examples are not life-threatening, losing an eye or a tooth.
So it is about non-retaliation. But on a personal level. Jesus was always talking to individuals and that often gets confused with government in these discussions. We shouldn't defend ourselves personally, but what about defending our country, our neighbors, our family etc. Jesus doesn't speak on that level.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 356 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 3:03 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 359 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 3:40 PM Faith has replied
 Message 362 by Aussie, posted 10-02-2018 4:01 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 360 of 1184 (840592)
10-02-2018 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by ringo
10-02-2018 3:40 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
No, you just like your own interpretations, I don't get it wrong very often at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 3:40 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 361 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:00 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 363 of 1184 (840599)
10-02-2018 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 361 by ringo
10-02-2018 4:00 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Here's a typical commentary from Got Questions on that command, and I didn't get it all that wrong, just hadn't remembered the context. But as I said it's about personal retaliation, not self defense in serious life-threatening situations.
To "turn the other cheek" does not imply pacifism, nor does it mean we place ourselves or others in mortal danger. Like the principle of the eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth in Matthew 5:38, turning the other cheek refers to personal retaliation, not criminal offenses or acts of military aggression. Clearly, Jesus did not mean to negate all God’s laws and injunctions protecting us against violent crime or invading armies. Rather, Jesus is speaking here of the principle of non-retaliation to affronts against our own dignity, as well as lawsuits to gain one’s personal assets (v. 40), infringements on one’s liberty (v. 41), and violations of property rights (v. 42). He was calling for a full surrender of all personal rights.
Turns out it IS about being insulted too.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:00 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:19 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 364 of 1184 (840601)
10-02-2018 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by Aussie
10-02-2018 4:01 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Thanks but no thanks. Unbelievers do not know how to read the Bible and even if I get stuff out of context sometimes, overall believers have the wherewithal to understand God's word and unbelievers don't. And when I point to my knowledge and the history of theology IT OUGHT TO BE RESPECTED. It's not mindless bragging. So thanks but no thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by Aussie, posted 10-02-2018 4:01 PM Aussie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by Aussie, posted 10-02-2018 4:18 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 367 of 1184 (840607)
10-02-2018 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 366 by ringo
10-02-2018 4:19 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
You don't know how to read the Bible, sorry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:19 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:26 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 368 of 1184 (840608)
10-02-2018 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 365 by Aussie
10-02-2018 4:18 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Turns out I wasn't wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by Aussie, posted 10-02-2018 4:18 PM Aussie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by Aussie, posted 10-02-2018 4:30 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 370 of 1184 (840613)
10-02-2018 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 369 by ringo
10-02-2018 4:26 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Quote all you like, you don't know how to read it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:26 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:38 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 372 of 1184 (840615)
10-02-2018 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 366 by ringo
10-02-2018 4:19 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
It's unbelievers who are the arrogant ones who think they can better understand God's word against the entire history of the Church. THAT is the real arrogance here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:19 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:40 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 376 by Percy, posted 10-02-2018 4:59 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 377 of 1184 (840628)
10-02-2018 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by Percy
10-02-2018 4:59 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
No. I don't think it condemns carrying them according to the second amendment, that's all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by Percy, posted 10-02-2018 4:59 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
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